WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.761 --> 00:00:07.449 [DEPUTY SECRETARY MAYORKAS] Thon, thank you for taking 2 00:00:07.449 --> 00:00:08.711 the time to speak with me. 3 00:00:08.711 --> 00:00:11.434 [THON CHOL] You’re welcome Deputy. Thank you, thank you for the opportunity. 4 00:00:12.404 --> 00:00:18.924 [DSM] Thon, I came to this country in 1960 as a political refugee from Cuba. 5 00:00:18.924 --> 00:00:24.777 My parents brought my sister and me here because they did not want to raise their 6 00:00:24.777 --> 00:00:31.086 children in a communist country and very much of my identity as a youth was centered 7 00:00:31.086 --> 00:00:38.479 around our refugee status. I learned what it meant to be a refugee. Then many years 8 00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:45.199 later, as the Director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, I traveled to 9 00:00:45.229 --> 00:00:52.988 Nairobi and took a short flight from that major city to a refugee camp of the Dadaab 10 00:00:52.998 --> 00:00:59.542 on the Kenyan-Somali border. And I saw the Somali refugees resident in the camp for 11 00:00:59.542 --> 00:01:06.481 many, many years. 300,000 of them. And that experience, their experience, was far, far 12 00:01:06.481 --> 00:01:14.036 different than mine. I had not suffered like that in my journey here. And it really 13 00:01:14.036 --> 00:01:24.854 shook my identity as a refugee. How would you describe the identity of a refugee given 14 00:01:24.854 --> 00:01:27.750 your experience? And I’ll ask you about your experience in a moment. 15 00:01:27.750 --> 00:01:33.036 [TC] First of all I want to say thank you, Deputy, for the opportunity. First and 16 00:01:33.036 --> 00:01:36.444 foremost before I even say anything, I want to say thank you to the American people. 17 00:01:36.444 --> 00:01:43.450 You know, sixteen, seventeen years ago I didn’t know where I was going, I didn’t know 18 00:01:43.488 --> 00:01:47.488 what my life would be. But given the opportunity and the door and welcome that 19 00:01:47.567 --> 00:01:55.595 was extended to me in darkness, I was able to see the light today. So, well, when 20 00:01:55.595 --> 00:02:00.790 we talk of refugees it’s a very broad term and a lot of people… you know the term is 21 00:02:00.790 --> 00:02:07.754 refugee, but a people, just like you said, there are political refugees, there are crisis 22 00:02:07.754 --> 00:02:15.350 refugees, war refugees, even natural disaster refugees. So, but, what the similarity is the 23 00:02:15.350 --> 00:02:24.339 needs around when left everything that they have, you know fall apart and they have to 24 00:02:24.339 --> 00:02:30.514 find where to begin. Most refugees here in common, they only look for green pastures, 25 00:02:30.514 --> 00:02:37.187 opportunities. But I think one thing that they share in common is safety and security of their 26 00:02:37.187 --> 00:02:40.358 loved ones, and be able to be together. 27 00:02:40.358 --> 00:02:47.117 [DSM] Thon, you mentioned a darkness that existed in your past and of course the light 28 00:02:47.117 --> 00:02:56.661 to which you arrived here in the United States. Share with us if you wouldn’t mind what the 29 00:02:56.661 --> 00:02:58.603 darkness really was. 30 00:02:58.603 --> 00:03:04.712 [TC] Well, you know, growing up as a child, I was a victim of political instability, greed, 31 00:03:04.712 --> 00:03:10.892 and also religious differences so I was robbed of my childhood as a result of Civil War that was 32 00:03:10.892 --> 00:03:17.920 happening in my country, Sudan at the time. So I fled home. You know, I lost my father. 33 00:03:17.920 --> 00:03:23.780 Most of my family members were killed as a result of war. So when I fled home, I didn’t know 34 00:03:23.780 --> 00:03:24.916 where I was going. 35 00:03:24.916 --> 00:03:25.892 [DSM] How old were you there? 36 00:03:25.892 --> 00:03:32.367 [TC] I was probably about five or six so I left. And then when I left, I ended up in Ethiopia 37 00:03:32.367 --> 00:03:37.170 I stayed there for four years in a refugee camp then came back to Sudan then end up in Kakuma 38 00:03:37.170 --> 00:03:45.305 from 1992-2000. So in the camp, most of the life was surrounded about we were living 39 00:03:45.305 --> 00:03:49.372 for the moment. Because we didn’t have anything, we were in the camp for the 40 00:03:49.372 --> 00:03:54.766 longest, and we didn’t know what the future was. Because like everything – 41 00:03:54.766 --> 00:03:59.235 the situation was not improving in my homeland country, the situation was not 42 00:03:59.235 --> 00:04:05.588 improving at the camp, so with that kind of hope, that we’re hoping for something 43 00:04:05.588 --> 00:04:09.925 to happen. But the years go by, the years go by and there’s nothing. So we kind of 44 00:04:09.925 --> 00:04:17.089 felt hopeless. However, out of all that hopelessness, we were also inspired by 45 00:04:17.089 --> 00:04:21.443 resilience, you know, there are people out there that will continue to do what they 46 00:04:21.443 --> 00:04:28.111 can to extend to us their generosity. And I was fortunate enough to be one of the 47 00:04:28.111 --> 00:04:32.264 beneficiaries that was given that generosity to come to the United States. 48 00:04:32.264 --> 00:04:36.737 So in 2000, I had the opportunity to be resettled in the U.S. as a minor. 49 00:04:36.737 --> 00:04:42.153 And because of that, that was the beginning of the light for me. And you know when I 50 00:04:42.153 --> 00:04:47.881 look back and think where I was, I was kind of in a pit with no light. 51 00:04:47.881 --> 00:04:53.004 But because of the humanity, the humanistic aspect of what we share, someone looked 52 00:04:53.004 --> 00:04:59.520 out for me and I was given the opportunity to start a new life in the U.S. 53 00:04:59.520 --> 00:05:05.014 I came with nothing, a plastic bag, a textbook in my bag. The American community 54 00:05:05.014 --> 00:05:10.012 received me, opened their resources to me, and they were able to do everything they 55 00:05:10.012 --> 00:05:13.424 can to redefine me, and do everything they can to transform my life. 56 00:05:13.424 --> 00:05:19.103 [DSM] When you first left Sudan as a young boy, four or five years of age, and 57 00:05:19.103 --> 00:05:23.018 traveled to the Ethiopia, did you travel in a group with others? 58 00:05:23.018 --> 00:05:26.907 [TC] Yeah we did, we did it in a group. What we did was in a group of boys and girls. 59 00:05:26.907 --> 00:05:32.321 At the time, they used to call us unaccompanied minors... so we traveled, mostly we used 60 00:05:32.321 --> 00:05:36.798 to travel at night for a couple of reasons. Because of the bombardment, we were being 61 00:05:36.798 --> 00:05:42.704 bombed by the government. Number two was to avoid the sun, and also the sun was very hot, 62 00:05:42.704 --> 00:05:47.744 and also there was a lack of water. So for the most part we traveled at night so that 63 00:05:47.744 --> 00:05:52.506 when we had no water, we would kind of be able to go to the next level. So we would 64 00:05:52.506 --> 00:05:57.995 travel in a group. But I think the biggest part was that I experienced the safety 65 00:05:57.995 --> 00:06:01.215 along the road, a lot of wildlife, and we were afraid of being killed, 66 00:06:01.215 --> 00:06:06.062 and people that were traveling. So a lot of people became victim of 67 00:06:06.062 --> 00:06:10.744 wild animals, a lot of people drowned when we crossed rivers, so there was a 68 00:06:10.744 --> 00:06:14.809 lot of rapid death. So for some of us that were traveling at the time, it was 69 00:06:14.809 --> 00:06:20.459 a moment whereby you feel like sometimes life is not even worth it. You know, 70 00:06:20.459 --> 00:06:24.189 because of God, some of us made it to Ethiopia. 71 00:06:24.189 --> 00:06:30.092 [DSM] When you ended up in the camp Kakuma, which is in Kenya, how long 72 00:06:30.092 --> 00:06:32.410 did you live in the camp? 73 00:06:32.410 --> 00:06:34.324 [TC] From 1992 until 2000. 74 00:06:34.324 --> 00:06:37.820 [DSM] And for those eight years, was there – is that a camp with 75 00:06:37.820 --> 00:06:38.716 running water? 76 00:06:38.716 --> 00:06:42.448 [TC] It was water, but sometimes it was water that was being shared 77 00:06:42.448 --> 00:06:45.579 by a large group of people. So sometimes there was a little bit 78 00:06:45.579 --> 00:06:50.184 inadequate bit of water, inadequate of food, so you can describe Kakuma, 79 00:06:50.184 --> 00:06:54.946 or most refugees in Kenya, as having inadequate of most everything: 80 00:06:54.946 --> 00:06:59.090 from medicine, from food, from security. So there were a lot of things that were 81 00:06:59.090 --> 00:07:03.836 against the refugees. However, that was much better conditions than what 82 00:07:03.836 --> 00:07:07.293 they left from their host countries, because there were Somalian, there were 83 00:07:07.293 --> 00:07:11.601 Sudanese, there were Ethiopian, there were Syrian, there were Somalis. So it 84 00:07:11.601 --> 00:07:16.318 was a very mixed camp. People came to the camp with different reasons, 85 00:07:16.318 --> 00:07:20.012 some people came as political – seeking political asylum, some came 86 00:07:20.012 --> 00:07:25.022 because of war in their own countries, some fled based on individual religious 87 00:07:25.022 --> 00:07:29.246 and those kind of related problems. So it was the camp that was mixed with 88 00:07:29.246 --> 00:07:33.014 a lot of people. So because of the scarcity of resources, there were a 89 00:07:33.014 --> 00:07:36.520 lot of competition on limited resources that also caused tension among 90 00:07:36.520 --> 00:07:37.942 the refugees themselves. 91 00:07:37.942 --> 00:07:41.609 [DSM] How many people were in the camp during your 8 years at one 92 00:07:41.609 --> 00:07:42.581 particular time? 93 00:07:42.581 --> 00:07:45.826 [TC] From what I was told, they say about roughly 80,000 refugees 94 00:07:45.826 --> 00:07:51.675 were in the camp. But I was in the minor group, so roughly about 300 to 95 00:07:51.675 --> 00:07:57.333 400 boys would jam up together. They were my brothers, and brothers – 96 00:07:57.333 --> 00:07:59.779 we kind of looked up to each other. That’s how we grew up. 97 00:07:59.779 --> 00:08:02.623 [DSM] Do you keep in touch with anyone whom you met in the camp? 98 00:08:02.623 --> 00:08:05.910 [TC] Yes, yes I did. And I think that kind of falls to what I said earlier, 99 00:08:05.910 --> 00:08:08.803 that living in the camp was more of a darkness. There were people that 100 00:08:08.803 --> 00:08:14.452 were with me in 1992. They still in that camp. Some of them became parents. 101 00:08:14.452 --> 00:08:17.533 Some of them were born in 1992, they become adults, they even have their 102 00:08:17.533 --> 00:08:21.530 own families, they have their own children in the camp. So, for some of them, they 103 00:08:21.530 --> 00:08:24.175 kind of felt like the world has closed out for them. 104 00:08:24.175 --> 00:08:25.763 [DSM] The camp is their world. 105 00:08:25.763 --> 00:08:29.381 [TC] The camp is all they know, and its all they know, that there’s no other 106 00:08:29.381 --> 00:08:32.879 opportunity that will happen to them, Because that’s all they know, and 107 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:34.670 that’s only what’s available to them. 108 00:08:36.610 --> 00:08:39.961 [DSM] Do you remember what you felt when you first learned that you were 109 00:08:39.961 --> 00:08:43.298 going to be resettled in the United States? 110 00:08:43.298 --> 00:08:48.417 [TC] I was in disbelief. I couldn’t believe it, cause I thought it was 111 00:08:48.417 --> 00:08:52.812 just another something to just kind of highlight in my day. But I did not 112 00:08:52.812 --> 00:08:59.243 believe it until I did the medical check. Cause I, my life has been really you 113 00:08:59.243 --> 00:09:05.906 know a wreck of incidents here and there, so when that opportunity presented itself, 114 00:09:05.906 --> 00:09:11.643 I kind of felt like you know this is not true. You know, it was that news 115 00:09:11.643 --> 00:09:17.963 that you can’t believe. So for me, we were having about, over 15,000 boys and girls 116 00:09:17.963 --> 00:09:23.526 so out of that population you know there was nothing that I kind of felt that 117 00:09:23.526 --> 00:09:26.164 would be unique about me that I felt like I would have the opportunity. 118 00:09:26.164 --> 00:09:30.481 And that’s one thing I thank God, that out of that 15,000 that I was among 119 00:09:30.481 --> 00:09:35.453 the people that was given the opportunity to come to the U.S. So I was very thrilled, 120 00:09:35.453 --> 00:09:40.316 I thank God, also I thank those people who were around me to continue to 121 00:09:40.316 --> 00:09:44.762 encourage me emotionally, because you know there was a lot of PTSD at the camp, 122 00:09:44.762 --> 00:09:48.873 a lot of traumatic stress disorder and, a lack of everything, a lot of 123 00:09:48.873 --> 00:09:52.410 diseases everywhere, left and right, insecurity at the camp. So it was 124 00:09:52.410 --> 00:09:56.359 one of those places that, because you have no options, so you have to 125 00:09:56.359 --> 00:10:00.344 make the best out of it because it was not best condition, However, 126 00:10:00.344 --> 00:10:04.736 most of NGOs are trying their best to run the camp with the limited 127 00:10:04.736 --> 00:10:06.449 resources that they have. 128 00:10:06.449 --> 00:10:12.179 [DSM] And you know, you were in your teens when you arrived here in the U.S. 129 00:10:12.179 --> 00:10:13.449 [TC] Yes. 130 00:10:13.449 --> 00:10:15.114 [DSM] And a foster family took you in. 131 00:10:15.114 --> 00:10:20.105 [TC] I was resettled by Lutheran Migration Refugee Service. And I was received by 132 00:10:20.105 --> 00:10:24.919 Bethany Christian Service in Grand Rapids, Michigan. So when I left New York, 133 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:28.494 I – the only thing that I was not told was the snow, the weather. 134 00:10:28.494 --> 00:10:30.652 So when I landed in Michigan… 135 00:10:30.652 --> 00:10:32.281 [DSM] Was that your first time seeing snow? 136 00:10:32.281 --> 00:10:34.801 [TC] It was my first time. Yeah. It was my first time. It was just 137 00:10:34.801 --> 00:10:38.013 amazing, you know, the cold and all of that. But I think that what made 138 00:10:38.013 --> 00:10:43.044 a difference for me was the welcome that was extended to me. I was welcomed 139 00:10:43.044 --> 00:10:49.065 by a grateful family, a very wonderful family that have really shown me the 140 00:10:49.065 --> 00:10:53.662 generosity and the love of the people of, of the American people. 141 00:10:53.662 --> 00:10:58.870 And I think that the foundation that they set for me was really what defined 142 00:10:58.870 --> 00:11:02.284 me years later. Because they opened – not only they opened their house for me, 143 00:11:02.284 --> 00:11:06.756 but they opened their hearts and their resources to help me, to orient me, 144 00:11:06.756 --> 00:11:11.221 to become part of the system for me to be able to excel. And part of that 145 00:11:11.221 --> 00:11:14.762 was that they were able to teach me language, they were able to help me 146 00:11:14.762 --> 00:11:17.935 to go through the education process, to the point that I was able to 147 00:11:17.935 --> 00:11:23.832 get my education. And I had friends, one good friend of mine Larry, 148 00:11:23.832 --> 00:11:28.550 great man, most of these friends were able to mentor me. 149 00:11:28.550 --> 00:11:34.764 They were able to teach me things that I need to know. So, it was more 150 00:11:34.764 --> 00:11:38.228 about collective community effort to welcome the Lost Boys and the Lost 151 00:11:38.228 --> 00:11:41.897 Girls in Grand Rapids, Michigan and be able to pour in to really help 152 00:11:41.897 --> 00:11:47.261 them to excel and not only Michigan, but in most states. And that’s how 153 00:11:47.261 --> 00:11:50.800 the story got out, the media got into it, the media ran with the story 154 00:11:50.800 --> 00:11:52.783 and the community poured in to help. 155 00:11:52.783 --> 00:11:56.165 [DSM] And the family that took you in is still a part of your life? 156 00:11:56.165 --> 00:11:59.447 [TC] A big part of my life, because part when I look back. They actually 157 00:11:59.447 --> 00:12:02.252 become part of my story. And because they’re part of my story, they’re 158 00:12:02.252 --> 00:12:03.755 my family forever. 159 00:12:03.755 --> 00:12:10.224 [DSM] And you in fact having graduated college and really received a tremendous 160 00:12:10.224 --> 00:12:18.602 education, earned a tremendous education, you’ve devoted your career to giving back, 161 00:12:18.602 --> 00:12:20.921 Why don’t you tell us a little bit about that? 162 00:12:20.921 --> 00:12:28.937 [TC] Well you know, someone let me to be here today. And I think in this 163 00:12:28.937 --> 00:12:34.589 world, we have more good people and I think if we always try to give back 164 00:12:34.589 --> 00:12:38.448 as much as we can, and I think that’s very much like what you’re doing. 165 00:12:38.448 --> 00:12:43.534 Because your parents brought you here, you excel very well, you become an 166 00:12:43.534 --> 00:12:47.271 inspiration to other people like myself to continue to push yourself. But I think 167 00:12:47.271 --> 00:12:54.352 for me, what really inspired me is the people that came to my rescue, that didn’t 168 00:12:54.352 --> 00:12:58.654 know nothing about me but they were touched by what I went through. And 169 00:12:58.654 --> 00:13:03.535 they knew that I had potential and they just want to unleash those potential. 170 00:13:03.535 --> 00:13:06.147 And I think that’s what applies to most refugees. When you look at the crisis 171 00:13:06.147 --> 00:13:10.462 in Syria and all of that, most of that innocent kids and women and elderly 172 00:13:10.462 --> 00:13:15.256 are victims. And in so, today, when I sitting here talking to you that, 173 00:13:15.256 --> 00:13:19.569 that any child, when given the right opportunity, when given the right 174 00:13:19.569 --> 00:13:24.476 platform, with safety and love and care and nurturing, they can become 175 00:13:24.476 --> 00:13:28.759 anybody. And I think the more we do good things, most of us become the 176 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:31.566 ambassadors of this country. I’m a U.S. citizen, and if I go outside 177 00:13:31.566 --> 00:13:36.601 today, not do I talk about the goodness of what I experienced, because what 178 00:13:36.601 --> 00:13:41.697 I experienced is part of me today. The humility, the care, the love that 179 00:13:41.697 --> 00:13:45.472 was extended to me has molded me to become a better person, to become 180 00:13:45.472 --> 00:13:49.539 the good and best for this country, to continue to take out the good 181 00:13:49.539 --> 00:13:51.089 will of the American people. 182 00:13:51.089 --> 00:13:55.481 [DSM] I think, Thon, just returning to how we began our conversation. 183 00:13:55.481 --> 00:14:00.481 One of the things that maybe unites all refugees regardless of their 184 00:14:00.481 --> 00:14:07.792 backgrounds is an appreciation for how precious an opportunity in life is. 185 00:14:07.792 --> 00:14:13.509 [TC] Absolutely, absolutely. And I think, I think our story has not 186 00:14:13.509 --> 00:14:18.837 been told enough. That sometimes we focus more on crisis, but sometimes 187 00:14:18.837 --> 00:14:23.069 we should now is time to tell this story, like this is what happens 188 00:14:23.069 --> 00:14:27.425 when we bring the people. This is where they start, this is where they end, 189 00:14:27.425 --> 00:14:30.552 and this is what they’re doing. They become part of the American society, 190 00:14:30.552 --> 00:14:33.966 they become American. They become contributors doing good things, 191 00:14:33.966 --> 00:14:37.500 in the Armed Forces, in the civil service. They’re doing all kind of things, 192 00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:41.680 alongside their born American counterparts. So these are people 193 00:14:41.680 --> 00:14:47.171 serving in churches, in the military, in the community, so not only and 194 00:14:47.171 --> 00:14:50.535 that’s why, that’s part of the appreciation. We become part, we 195 00:14:50.535 --> 00:14:53.920 become equal partners in trying to advance the values of this 196 00:14:53.920 --> 00:14:57.655 country and trying to do good things to continue to lead the world. 197 00:14:57.655 --> 00:15:03.222 [DSM] Many years ago the Lutheran organization facilitated your arrival 198 00:15:03.222 --> 00:15:08.914 here in the United States. Years later, you served on the Board of that 199 00:15:08.914 --> 00:15:16.455 very same agency. You now contribute to children in need through your work 200 00:15:16.455 --> 00:15:22.110 on behalf of the government of the District of Columbia. From darkness, 201 00:15:22.110 --> 00:15:28.327 to light, and then now Thon, you bring light to others. You’re a 202 00:15:28.327 --> 00:15:32.133 remarkable individual, with a remarkable story. 203 00:15:32.133 --> 00:15:35.882 [TC] Thank you, thank you Deputy. And I think that applies to most refugees. 204 00:15:35.882 --> 00:15:39.982 And today, this is just only a small segment. I know there are other refugees 205 00:15:39.982 --> 00:15:43.811 that have done tremendous things, far more than what I did. But I think 206 00:15:43.811 --> 00:15:48.488 mine goes back to the society, to the community here in the U.S, the community 207 00:15:48.488 --> 00:15:51.988 that transformed me. I don’t take the credit, I say that the American people 208 00:15:51.988 --> 00:15:56.080 helped me to become who I am. And now the collective work trying to 209 00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:57.766 inspire more and help more people. 210 00:15:57.766 --> 00:15:58.814 [DSM] For a better world. 211 00:15:58.814 --> 00:15:59.991 [TC] Amen.