WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.070 --> 00:00:04.140 Hello and welcome to today's Tech Talk with the Department of Homeland Security 2 00:00:04.140 --> 00:00:06.880 Science and Technology Directorate. Today we're gonna be talking about the 3 00:00:06.880 --> 00:00:10.380 Rapid DNA Technology, and I'm joined by Chris Miles from S&T 4 00:00:10.380 --> 00:00:14.220 and Melanie Glass from CBP's Laboratories and Scientific Services 5 00:00:14.220 --> 00:00:16.320 So just to start off, I want to ask you a couple questions and we're 6 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:19.700 gonna open it up to the audience can you tell me a little bit about your background, 7 00:00:19.700 --> 00:00:21.500 and what your role in the project has been? 8 00:00:21.500 --> 00:00:25.300 Yeah I'm Chris Miles, I'm an engineer here in S&T. 9 00:00:25.300 --> 00:00:28.300 I work in our Capability Development Support group 10 00:00:28.300 --> 00:00:33.300 and I've been the Program Manager on the Rapid DNA program since its beginning. 11 00:00:33.980 --> 00:00:38.160 And managed two contractors plus a few 12 00:00:38.160 --> 00:00:41.200 other partners that we have in developing the technology. 13 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:43.560 Very nice. 14 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:47.040 I'm Melanie Glass, I'm with Laboratories and Scientific Services. 15 00:00:47.040 --> 00:00:49.120 I am one of the Forensic Program Managers. 16 00:00:49.120 --> 00:00:54.120 and S&T asked us to partner with them to provide some technology support. 17 00:00:55.040 --> 00:00:58.960 Okay, great. So just to start off, can you tell me a little bit what, 18 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:01.460 What is Rapid DNA? What does this technology do? 19 00:01:01.460 --> 00:01:06.460 Well Rapid DNA is really just a integration and automation program, 20 00:01:07.650 --> 00:01:10.040 to take what was traditionally done in a 21 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:12.780 DNA forensic laboratory and shrink it 22 00:01:12.780 --> 00:01:15.100 down to a box it's a little bigger than a 23 00:01:15.100 --> 00:01:18.780 printer size box that just took all the 24 00:01:18.780 --> 00:01:22.160 the different processes that a that a technician would do, 25 00:01:22.160 --> 00:01:25.700 and put them all together so an officer or an agent 26 00:01:25.700 --> 00:01:29.260 out in the field can take a DNA swab and put it in 27 00:01:29.260 --> 00:01:32.880 and get a DNA profile in now ninety minutes. 28 00:01:32.880 --> 00:01:33.540 Wow. 29 00:01:33.540 --> 00:01:38.140 So yeah, used to take eight to ten hours of processing for DNA. 30 00:01:38.140 --> 00:01:38.840 Oh my gosh. 31 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:41.900 And we've brought that down to 90 minutes 32 00:01:41.900 --> 00:01:45.400 for five different people to be processed at the same time. 33 00:01:45.570 --> 00:01:47.640 So that's not just one person, that's you can process multiple people 34 00:01:48.290 --> 00:01:49.540 at the same time within a 90-minute time frame? 35 00:01:49.540 --> 00:01:50.620 Right. Wow. 36 00:01:50.620 --> 00:01:53.940 Yeah. We have two companies that develop the technology 37 00:01:53.940 --> 00:01:55.720 one does little differences between them, 38 00:01:55.720 --> 00:01:58.820 one does five at a time and the other does seven. 39 00:01:58.820 --> 00:02:02.960 So, little differences, but the profiles are exactly the same 40 00:02:02.960 --> 00:02:05.380 that you get out of a full laboratory. 41 00:02:05.380 --> 00:02:09.740 Okay, So what is DHS using Rapid DNA for? 42 00:02:09.740 --> 00:02:11.660 What is their interest in the technology? 43 00:02:11.660 --> 00:02:15.620 Well, DNA has been used in a number of 44 00:02:15.620 --> 00:02:19.740 different places in DHS for doing criminal investigations. 45 00:02:19.740 --> 00:02:23.180 We're the largest criminal investigative arm 46 00:02:23.180 --> 00:02:25.140 in the entire federal government. Wow. 47 00:02:25.140 --> 00:02:28.260 Between Homeland Security Investigations, 48 00:02:28.260 --> 00:02:32.360 and different components that Coast Guard even has an investigative unit. 49 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:36.040 So, they've used DNA for doing casework 50 00:02:36.040 --> 00:02:39.140 like any law enforcement department for a long time. 51 00:02:39.140 --> 00:02:44.140 We also process the DNA. Melanie can talk more about this than I can. 52 00:02:47.020 --> 00:02:51.260 But for other things, DNA is part of what makes up a human. 53 00:02:51.260 --> 00:02:54.920 But it's also what makes up a plant or a fish or ... 54 00:02:54.920 --> 00:02:59.260 So you can identify a lot of things about humans or 55 00:02:59.260 --> 00:03:04.260 or fish. And we do that within DHS for export control and imports. 56 00:03:05.640 --> 00:03:10.640 And it's used for immigration. So, are families related like they claim? 57 00:03:13.310 --> 00:03:14.940 That's been used for a long time. 58 00:03:14.940 --> 00:03:17.780 Again it's take the samples send them off 59 00:03:17.780 --> 00:03:22.780 to a laboratory and days, to weeks, to months later you get the results. 60 00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:25.740 So Rapid DNA just made that so you can 61 00:03:25.740 --> 00:03:28.580 actually bring it right out to the field 62 00:03:28.580 --> 00:03:31.320 or right to the use of it, run it right there, 63 00:03:31.320 --> 00:03:33.020 and ninety minutes later, you know. 64 00:03:33.020 --> 00:03:35.740 While the, while the people are still there. 65 00:03:35.740 --> 00:03:38.380 mm-hmm. It's important. 66 00:03:38.380 --> 00:03:40.960 Melody can you talk about you know how DNA is used, 67 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:44.150 maybe from a customs, you know, import/export perspective? 68 00:03:44.150 --> 00:03:48.300 So within LSS, there is a non-human DNA capability. 69 00:03:48.300 --> 00:03:51.560 Several of our labs have that ability, 70 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:54.820 to analyze variety of different fish, 71 00:03:54.820 --> 00:03:59.820 plants, to determine for classification purposes 72 00:04:00.180 --> 00:04:04.580 species identification, if it's a protected class of species. 73 00:04:04.580 --> 00:04:09.580 Even just to make sure a product is what it's labeled to be. 74 00:04:10.340 --> 00:04:14.240 So you know, what, what meat is in that sausage? [laughter] 75 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:18.000 There are certain things that are prohibited from 76 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:20.760 entering into the U.S. commerce. 77 00:04:20.760 --> 00:04:23.520 And it's hard to tell when a fish is filleted 78 00:04:23.520 --> 00:04:24.980 or when a sausage is ground, 79 00:04:24.980 --> 00:04:28.100 exactly what it is, or where it came from. 80 00:04:28.100 --> 00:04:33.100 So we have that capability within our laboratories. 81 00:04:33.190 --> 00:04:36.860 Now to be clear, Rapid DNA is focused on human DNA right? 82 00:04:36.860 --> 00:04:38.860 Correct. So why is it focused, you know, 83 00:04:38.860 --> 00:04:42.170 Why are we looking at human DNA as opposed to another type of 84 00:04:42.170 --> 00:04:45.180 bio-metric to verify family relationships? Lets say. 85 00:04:45.180 --> 00:04:47.540 What's, what's special about DNA that allows us to do this? 86 00:04:47.540 --> 00:04:51.220 Yeah, like you said the relationships really, 87 00:04:51.220 --> 00:04:53.340 there's a lot, bio-metrics each serve 88 00:04:53.340 --> 00:04:57.260 different areas, are good tools for doing each of their own jobs. 89 00:04:57.260 --> 00:05:01.020 You know, we do fingerprinting for visitors to our country, 90 00:05:01.020 --> 00:05:04.220 and DHS has one of the largest databases for that. 91 00:05:04.220 --> 00:05:08.200 And it works great for separating. Are people who they are really claiming to be? 92 00:05:08.200 --> 00:05:08.700 Yeah. 93 00:05:08.700 --> 00:05:12.740 Are they a known criminal? And so DNA is 94 00:05:12.740 --> 00:05:16.400 really just another tool that uniquely, 95 00:05:16.400 --> 00:05:20.330 it does relationships. We get half of our DNA from our mother 96 00:05:20.330 --> 00:05:23.460 half of our DNA from our father and so 97 00:05:23.460 --> 00:05:26.680 you can tell, you know, is this, are these 98 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:28.040 people related like they claim? 99 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:31.220 Yeah. It takes longer than other bio-metrics do. 100 00:05:31.220 --> 00:05:35.780 But that's such a unique characteristic, that it's worth doing it for some cases. 101 00:05:35.780 --> 00:05:38.440 And where you might have a fingerprint 102 00:05:38.440 --> 00:05:42.200 or an iris scan and give you an individualization. 103 00:05:42.200 --> 00:05:45.920 Really, DNA is the only one that will give you family. 104 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:48.360 Gotcha, so, really emphasizing that, 105 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:50.140 this is how we prove relationships. 106 00:05:50.140 --> 00:05:51.620 Not just that, you are, who you are. 107 00:05:51.620 --> 00:05:53.440 But, you know, how are you related to this 108 00:05:53.440 --> 00:05:55.220 person that you're claiming to be related to. 109 00:05:55.220 --> 00:05:56.420 Right. And you can understand how that's 110 00:05:56.420 --> 00:05:57.880 important in, you know, people entering 111 00:05:57.880 --> 00:05:59.820 the country together or making sure that 112 00:05:59.820 --> 00:06:02.580 someone's reunited after a disaster or something. 113 00:06:02.580 --> 00:06:03.020 Right. 114 00:06:03.020 --> 00:06:05.500 I actually want to talk about that kind of situation. 115 00:06:05.500 --> 00:06:09.300 I know we've done some live exercises recently. 116 00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:11.900 What kind of things have we been testing in the field? 117 00:06:11.900 --> 00:06:13.520 What scenarios are we using? 118 00:06:13.520 --> 00:06:15.560 Yeah, as an engineer I never thought I'd 119 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:17.380 run into some of the things I've experienced 120 00:06:17.380 --> 00:06:20.820 within DHS and mass casualty exercises 121 00:06:20.820 --> 00:06:22.840 or mass casualty events or one of those 122 00:06:22.840 --> 00:06:24.800 that I thought I'd never know as much as 123 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:27.660 I do now about how that all plays out. 124 00:06:27.660 --> 00:06:31.300 And so, if there was a mass disaster that 125 00:06:31.300 --> 00:06:35.000 occurred and one of your family members was involved. 126 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:37.240 You know, that's traumatic time for people. 127 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:40.400 So they go to what's called a Family Assistance Center, 128 00:06:40.400 --> 00:06:42.460 and it's like an eight-page form. 129 00:06:42.460 --> 00:06:45.120 You could imagine asking all kinds of questions 130 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:47.420 about who's their dentist, because a lot 131 00:06:47.420 --> 00:06:49.880 of identifications are made on dental x-rays. 132 00:06:49.880 --> 00:06:54.500 They ask you questions about you know, 133 00:06:54.500 --> 00:06:59.240 tattoos or individual markings or if you've 134 00:06:59.240 --> 00:07:00.700 had a pacemaker installed, 135 00:07:00.700 --> 00:07:04.640 the serial number on the pacemaker may be used to identify the person 136 00:07:04.640 --> 00:07:05.200 Yeah 137 00:07:05.200 --> 00:07:09.360 So DNA, obviously, when 911 occurred or 138 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:13.680 when Hurricane Katrina became a big, big 139 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:15.540 identifier for the individuals. 140 00:07:15.540 --> 00:07:17.780 But if you have both the family members, 141 00:07:17.780 --> 00:07:22.240 as well as the victim then you can use DNA to say are they related? 142 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:27.020 Yeah And DNA has been very helpful in those 143 00:07:27.020 --> 00:07:28.580 mass-casualty kind of events. 144 00:07:28.580 --> 00:07:31.500 So we worked with FEMA, we worked with National Guard 145 00:07:31.500 --> 00:07:33.100 gets called out for those events. 146 00:07:33.100 --> 00:07:36.060 Yeah. We've done a number of exercises. 147 00:07:36.060 --> 00:07:39.840 One up in Vermont that was over 5,000 148 00:07:39.840 --> 00:07:43.120 people involved in this mass exercise. 149 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:45.520 They're trying out. Are the hospital's ready? 150 00:07:45.520 --> 00:07:48.720 Are the First Responders ready to go out 151 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:53.560 to do, you know, assess the incident, assess what occurred. 152 00:07:53.560 --> 00:07:55.200 How did the police respond? 153 00:07:55.200 --> 00:07:57.240 How do, you know, all of the different 154 00:07:57.240 --> 00:07:59.820 federal resources that call, get called on 155 00:07:59.820 --> 00:08:01.320 by the state and locals? 156 00:08:01.320 --> 00:08:03.760 How do they respond? And is it coordinated? 157 00:08:03.760 --> 00:08:05.540 And what can we learn from that? 158 00:08:05.540 --> 00:08:08.440 So we've brought Rapid DNA out to 159 00:08:08.440 --> 00:08:12.080 three different big exercises like that now. 160 00:08:12.080 --> 00:08:17.080 One they even had a, you know, a mock radiological release. 161 00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:20.479 So everybody gets in there chemical 162 00:08:20.479 --> 00:08:22.600 you know, suits and everything. 163 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:27.420 You know, that was a hard decision you take a 164 00:08:27.420 --> 00:08:29.280 piece of equipment and send it out there, 165 00:08:29.280 --> 00:08:30.880 knowing that it's probably gonna have to 166 00:08:30.880 --> 00:08:33.260 be thrown away after the event. 167 00:08:33.260 --> 00:08:36.400 Because it gets exposed to stuff that just can't be cleaned 168 00:08:36.400 --> 00:08:38.960 But in a real event like that, you may 169 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:40.800 make that decision that you want to know 170 00:08:40.800 --> 00:08:42.400 who those people are and you can't even 171 00:08:42.400 --> 00:08:45.060 bring their sample back. You'd contaminate 172 00:08:45.060 --> 00:08:48.900 a full laboratory. But the, our device, you could send it out there and 173 00:08:48.900 --> 00:08:52.060 and have them run it, and use it and that kind an event 174 00:08:52.060 --> 00:08:55.800 So that, we've learned a lot from those 175 00:08:55.800 --> 00:08:58.240 exercises and participating in them. 176 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:00.540 And we've had great partners CBP is in that 177 00:09:00.540 --> 00:09:02.820 they have mobile laboratories and 178 00:09:02.820 --> 00:09:04.900 they've sent the mobile laboratories out 179 00:09:04.900 --> 00:09:06.740 for us to put our DNA instruments in. 180 00:09:06.740 --> 00:09:10.100 And we've tested are the mobile enough, 181 00:09:10.100 --> 00:09:14.600 Are they rugged enough? Do they survive running on generator power? 182 00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:17.100 Being moved from location to location? 183 00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:19.550 Things in a laboratory, you would never do with that, 184 00:09:19.550 --> 00:09:21.640 with those pieces of equipment. 185 00:09:21.640 --> 00:09:21.960 Right. 186 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:24.160 Need recalibrated and everything. 187 00:09:24.160 --> 00:09:27.940 We've been able to show that, it really is 188 00:09:27.940 --> 00:09:29.700 meeting its performance requirements 189 00:09:29.700 --> 00:09:33.000 that we set out years ago when we started the program. 190 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:34.740 That's great. What about some of the 191 00:09:34.740 --> 00:09:35.760 lessons learned along the way 192 00:09:35.760 --> 00:09:38.620 in these exercises? In terms of, you know, 193 00:09:38.620 --> 00:09:41.240 what works? Where is it super successful? 194 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:43.040 or, where do we need more user training? 195 00:09:43.040 --> 00:09:44.460 Like what's been kind of some of the stuff 196 00:09:44.460 --> 00:09:46.620 that you learned along the way? 197 00:09:46.620 --> 00:09:50.630 We've learned a lot from the laboratory participating with us. 198 00:09:50.630 --> 00:09:51.920 You know, things like you don't want to 199 00:09:51.920 --> 00:09:54.560 contaminate DNA with your own DNA. 200 00:09:54.560 --> 00:09:56.600 So you have to put gloves on. 201 00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:00.280 Well they already are wearing gloves in these contaminated environments. 202 00:10:00.280 --> 00:10:02.880 That's true So the gloves had to go over their gloves. 203 00:10:02.880 --> 00:10:04.540 We didn't have gloves large enough. 204 00:10:04.540 --> 00:10:09.060 You know, simple things like that, that you just, they know, but we don't. 205 00:10:09.060 --> 00:10:12.860 As, engineers and science people 206 00:10:16.100 --> 00:10:19.180 on our touch display, weren't large enough for your big glove, 207 00:10:19.180 --> 00:10:21.580 you couldn't hit only that button. That's true. 208 00:10:21.580 --> 00:10:23.280 So we're probably gonna have to redo the interface 209 00:10:23.280 --> 00:10:27.820 little bit to be larger buttons. 210 00:10:27.820 --> 00:10:29.540 And you know, and we've seen 211 00:10:29.540 --> 00:10:32.120 where the technology works and when it hasn't. 212 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:34.500 And being an engineer I think if we don't 213 00:10:34.500 --> 00:10:39.140 break it sometimes you don't really find out how good it's going to work. 214 00:10:39.140 --> 00:10:40.800 [laughter]Right. How easy it is to fix. 215 00:10:40.800 --> 00:10:44.040 And so we've broken them a few times, had some help 216 00:10:44.040 --> 00:10:49.040 with our shipping companies by banging them around a bit too much. [Laughter] 217 00:10:49.130 --> 00:10:51.880 learned you know how rugged they are, 218 00:10:51.880 --> 00:10:56.020 how do they really work out in the field? Which is an important thing. 219 00:10:56.020 --> 00:10:56.960 That's great. 220 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:01.960 So, LSS has a high operational component. We do have mobile laboratories 221 00:11:03.500 --> 00:11:08.500 and mobile equipment. So it's a smaller scale than what 222 00:11:08.520 --> 00:11:10.120 you would normally find in a laboratory. 223 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:13.380 But again, ruggedized so that in a field 224 00:11:13.380 --> 00:11:17.320 environment you're not going to have too much impact from all the 225 00:11:17.320 --> 00:11:21.880 potential desktop and, or drops and what-have-you. 226 00:11:21.880 --> 00:11:26.400 And we are used to that type of scenario of functioning in 227 00:11:26.400 --> 00:11:29.520 unusual places and out in the field and in extreme temperatures. 228 00:11:29.520 --> 00:11:34.520 So, we can bring a little bit of that knowledge to the requirements 229 00:11:35.220 --> 00:11:40.220 section of it. But really, putting it in one of these events really 230 00:11:40.780 --> 00:11:44.040 does sort of highlight, like I said, the glove aspect of it. 231 00:11:44.040 --> 00:11:48.820 Yeah. And the buttons, really give you the 232 00:11:48.820 --> 00:11:50.980 experience of writing the lessons learned, 233 00:11:50.980 --> 00:11:55.980 what do we do next time? Was the generator providing enough steady power? 234 00:11:56.400 --> 00:11:57.540 Did you have any blips? 235 00:11:57.540 --> 00:12:01.720 Because you certainly don't want your cycle to be disrupted 236 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:05.500 in the middle of your of your development, so... 237 00:12:05.500 --> 00:12:08.140 And we've gone out with CBP as well. 238 00:12:08.140 --> 00:12:09.840 we were down on the southwest border, 239 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:14.740 and worked with real CBP officers to demonstrate technology to them 240 00:12:14.740 --> 00:12:19.380 and let them run it and see what the interface is. 241 00:12:19.380 --> 00:12:22.860 Is it simple enough? You know, people that developed these 242 00:12:22.860 --> 00:12:25.780 we're used to working in a highly skilled, 243 00:12:25.780 --> 00:12:28.240 highly trained laboratory environment. 244 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:33.100 And we want a much more simple interface than that. 245 00:12:33.100 --> 00:12:37.040 And an even one that restricts access to a lot of the information. 246 00:12:37.040 --> 00:12:41.500 So, you know, the operator can put in the sample and run it. 247 00:12:41.500 --> 00:12:44.200 But they maybe don't even need to see the result. 248 00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:47.080 They need to see a check-mark or an "X". Yeah. 249 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:49.040 Did it match or did it not match? \Yeah. 250 00:12:49.040 --> 00:12:51.400 They don't need to see the detailed information. 251 00:12:51.400 --> 00:12:54.940 For that you send it back to a qualified expert 252 00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:59.220 that could review it. If it needs reviewed or needs further 253 00:12:59.220 --> 00:13:02.440 secondary set of eyes on the results. 254 00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:06.460 But, so figuring out the access control, 255 00:13:06.460 --> 00:13:09.400 and the real users and the requirements 256 00:13:09.400 --> 00:13:12.160 for that has been a real, real good feedback from getting 257 00:13:12.160 --> 00:13:14.900 into the field and trying the technology out. 258 00:13:14.900 --> 00:13:17.720 That's good. So it looks like we have a question, 259 00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:19.800 about you know, is this available for use 260 00:13:19.800 --> 00:13:21.140 by local law enforcement. 261 00:13:21.140 --> 00:13:24.280 So, is this something that is available for folks to use out in the field? 262 00:13:24.280 --> 00:13:27.000 It is. Today it's commercially available. 263 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.300 There's two companies that we help to develop the technology with. 264 00:13:30.300 --> 00:13:30.820 Okay 265 00:13:30.820 --> 00:13:33.640 And law enforcement there's a number of 266 00:13:33.640 --> 00:13:36.620 pilots going on mostly through the 267 00:13:36.620 --> 00:13:38.060 Department of Justice, of course. 268 00:13:38.060 --> 00:13:41.440 We don't directly support law enforcement 269 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:43.760 as much here and in Homeland Security. 270 00:13:43.760 --> 00:13:48.140 So there's a number of the companies 271 00:13:48.140 --> 00:13:50.960 are working to pilot technology and see 272 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:52.480 how it works for law enforcement. 273 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:56.560 We are waiting on a bill that's kind of working 274 00:13:56.560 --> 00:13:58.060 its way through Congress right now that 275 00:13:58.060 --> 00:14:02.800 may really free up the use of the technology for law enforcement. 276 00:14:03.300 --> 00:14:04.580 Okay, can you tell me a little bit about that bill? 277 00:14:04.580 --> 00:14:07.460 Yeah. It's called the Rapid DNA Act of Twenty Seventeen. 278 00:14:07.460 --> 00:14:12.020 Easy to remember. Yeah. It was actually its been approved 279 00:14:12.020 --> 00:14:16.060 by both House and Senate in Congress. 280 00:14:16.060 --> 00:14:18.480 It's kind of waiting for resolution of it 281 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:20.980 in the Senate Judiciary Committee right now. 282 00:14:20.980 --> 00:14:23.720 But they're hoping that it would get to 283 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:25.180 get to the President's desk pretty soon. 284 00:14:25.180 --> 00:14:27.380 And then what's that legislation going to do? 285 00:14:27.380 --> 00:14:32.380 It will, actually, the FBI has a big database 286 00:14:32.800 --> 00:14:37.800 for DNA and it will allow the base, the local law enforcement to 287 00:14:40.400 --> 00:14:44.260 have Rapid DNA instruments just as part of their booking station. 288 00:14:44.260 --> 00:14:46.200 Oh, okay. Where they can do fingerprints 289 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:49.400 and face and DNA. And they can submit 290 00:14:49.400 --> 00:14:53.980 those profiles directly to the FBI and get back results within two hours. 291 00:14:53.980 --> 00:14:56.460 That's fantastic. So where they use to collect DNA 292 00:14:56.460 --> 00:14:58.080 Again send it off to her laboratory, 293 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:02.240 weeks later you'd find out ,hey we had somebody that was a sexual offender. 294 00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:05.690 You know, we didn't know it when we took their fingerprints 295 00:15:05.690 --> 00:15:07.960 and now they have that information, 296 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:10.240 so they have to go out and find that person again. 297 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:12.680 This will, this, they'll get the answers back 298 00:15:12.680 --> 00:15:14.260 while the person is still there. Okay. 299 00:15:14.260 --> 00:15:16.740 And that's what we're pushing for and a lot 300 00:15:16.740 --> 00:15:20.080 of the Rapid DNA applications. 301 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:23.920 And I want to ask Melanie from a components perspective. 302 00:15:23.920 --> 00:15:25.900 Why is it important to have the, you know, 303 00:15:25.900 --> 00:15:28.080 rapid assessment in the field? 304 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:31.680 So there are a variety of areas that I 305 00:15:31.680 --> 00:15:34.760 believe Rapid DNA would be very useful 306 00:15:34.760 --> 00:15:39.760 in particular the child smuggling issues, 307 00:15:39.920 --> 00:15:42.940 child trafficking issues on the border. 308 00:15:42.940 --> 00:15:45.760 there are situations where family units 309 00:15:45.760 --> 00:15:48.760 that cross are not necessarily family units. 310 00:15:48.760 --> 00:15:51.580 They may use an infant or child 311 00:15:51.580 --> 00:15:56.340 non-speaking child to give a sense of a family, 312 00:15:56.340 --> 00:15:59.660 because it is handled differently 313 00:15:59.660 --> 00:16:03.940 when you detain a family unit versus individuals. 314 00:16:03.940 --> 00:16:08.060 Right. And so you have a sort of a rent a baby at times. 315 00:16:08.060 --> 00:16:11.460 When, whether it's child smuggling or 316 00:16:11.460 --> 00:16:13.020 drug smuggling the variety of different 317 00:16:13.020 --> 00:16:16.680 reasons so being able to put this tool 318 00:16:16.680 --> 00:16:18.800 in the hands of the officers on the 319 00:16:18.800 --> 00:16:23.640 front line to make those determinations would be invaluable. 320 00:16:23.640 --> 00:16:28.640 And I would say that, that would be one of the biggest 321 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:35.080 uses for CBP. A lot of the different case 322 00:16:35.400 --> 00:16:40.120 work type of situations for DNA would 323 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:44.680 also, because Rapid DNA can do a family determination. 324 00:16:44.680 --> 00:16:49.680 A lot of the investigations are with fraud with benefit fraud. 325 00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:54.500 Is this family member really you know part of the family? 326 00:16:54.500 --> 00:16:58.180 So, there are variety different uses. 327 00:16:58.180 --> 00:17:01.460 The mass casualty part would be also very useful. 328 00:17:01.460 --> 00:17:05.860 I foresee, with our laboratories, we have 329 00:17:05.860 --> 00:17:08.840 eight throughout the nation and I can 330 00:17:08.840 --> 00:17:13.840 easily see if we had the instruments and our mobile capabilities 331 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:17.600 being able to deploy those in mass casualty events. 332 00:17:17.600 --> 00:17:22.600 If you have equipment sitting on a shelf waiting to be used, 333 00:17:23.540 --> 00:17:25.360 anybody who works in a laboratory will 334 00:17:25.360 --> 00:17:26.780 tell you that's not a good situation. 335 00:17:26.780 --> 00:17:29.300 Yeah. They don't work if you keep them on the shelf. 336 00:17:29.300 --> 00:17:30.540 You have to keep them up and running 337 00:17:30.540 --> 00:17:34.660 and calibrated and we could do that. 338 00:17:34.660 --> 00:17:38.620 You know ,use them real time but then also be able to deploy them easily. 339 00:17:38.620 --> 00:17:42.660 Yeah, and this gets back to the point about how is it you know for the user 340 00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:44.880 interface or just for the operator in the field? 341 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:47.640 Like this needs to be something that's very instinctive and 342 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:49.690 the point about you know, how are we looking at 343 00:17:49.690 --> 00:17:52.160 things like the size of the gloves and 344 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:53.660 you know, how big someone's fingers when 345 00:17:53.660 --> 00:17:55.580 they're wearing protective equipment. 346 00:17:55.580 --> 00:17:57.340 So it's great to know that there is this 347 00:17:57.340 --> 00:17:58.780 partnership that's happening between 348 00:17:58.780 --> 00:18:00.020 you know. What are the folks in the field 349 00:18:00.020 --> 00:18:03.060 need this to do? And how do they need it to work? 350 00:18:03.060 --> 00:18:05.780 so that they can successfully use it. 351 00:18:05.780 --> 00:18:06.800 Because I mean it sounds like gonna be 352 00:18:06.800 --> 00:18:08.200 extremely helpful in terms of... 353 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:11.480 You know, verifying folks are related to people they say they are. 354 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.660 Yeah. One more question I want to ask, 355 00:18:14.660 --> 00:18:17.040 How did this project get started? 356 00:18:17.040 --> 00:18:19.680 You know. What's some of the history behind it? 357 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:22.820 Yeah it was, it's really been an amazing 358 00:18:22.820 --> 00:18:26.400 program to be a part of and it came out of a 359 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:30.340 requirement from US Citizenship and Immigration Services 360 00:18:30.340 --> 00:18:33.440 Okay, They came to S&T years ago and said, 361 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:35.940 "Hey we want a tool that we can take out 362 00:18:35.940 --> 00:18:39.640 and while we're doing an immigration interview 363 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:42.780 we can tell are these people are related like they claim or not" 364 00:18:42.780 --> 00:18:45.260 Okay. Cause if you imagine a refugee camp, 365 00:18:45.260 --> 00:18:48.180 they don't have birth certificates and documentation 366 00:18:48.180 --> 00:18:51.460 and then everything we normally go through to determine that. 367 00:18:51.460 --> 00:18:53.940 Of course we take their fingerprints and we do a 368 00:18:53.940 --> 00:18:56.880 background check with that but again DNA 369 00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:00.360 does uniquely kinship. and they could, 370 00:19:00.360 --> 00:19:03.240 they do, in many cases take swabs send 371 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.560 them off to laboratory, hear back weeks to months later. 372 00:19:06.560 --> 00:19:09.160 Yeah But to be able to do it right there, 373 00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:10.980 while you're interviewing the people, 374 00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:13.660 get the results, be able to talk to them. 375 00:19:13.660 --> 00:19:17.800 You know, about the one child you know that didn't come up. 376 00:19:17.800 --> 00:19:20.880 Maybe they are family, maybe it's an adopted child 377 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:23.440 they just didn't understand when they put it on their form. 378 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:25.560 Yeah. You know, they're my child. 379 00:19:25.560 --> 00:19:29.660 Yeah. And the DNA will show that but it's part of 380 00:19:29.660 --> 00:19:32.260 interview process it's a tool that helps 381 00:19:32.260 --> 00:19:35.060 the officer to make the determination. 382 00:19:35.060 --> 00:19:39.120 And like many other tools they use every day, 383 00:19:39.120 --> 00:19:42.400 you know, it's it's not a hundred percent thing, 384 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:45.240 because life isn't 100 percent. Right. 385 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:49.920 But, so, it actually the requirement originally was they wanted 386 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:52.300 something that could do it in five minutes. 387 00:19:52.300 --> 00:19:57.300 And so it sat there on our unmet requirements for a couple years. 388 00:19:57.520 --> 00:20:00.220 Okay. And we finally did, we called an 389 00:20:00.220 --> 00:20:03.960 analysis of alternatives. We had our FFRDC, 390 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:06.840 Federally Funded Research and Development Center, 391 00:20:06.840 --> 00:20:09.840 Homeland Security Investigations at the time. 392 00:20:09.840 --> 00:20:12.420 They were, they went off and did a whole study 393 00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:13.880 on where was the technology? 394 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:18.220 What were the different users among all the different components that could use it? 395 00:20:18.220 --> 00:20:21.940 And they said, "Wow the technology from what they can find". 396 00:20:21.940 --> 00:20:25.660 Maybe if we invested a lot of money we could do it in an hour. 397 00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:27.780 Yeah. But it'd be a big program. 398 00:20:27.780 --> 00:20:32.780 So we put out a little SBIR, Small Business Innovative Research 399 00:20:33.540 --> 00:20:38.380 study grant, and got a bunch of proposals in 400 00:20:38.380 --> 00:20:41.060 and selected three of those, and gave 401 00:20:41.060 --> 00:20:42.760 them each, I think, at the time was 402 00:20:42.760 --> 00:20:45.700 hundred thousand dollars to do a little six month study. 403 00:20:45.700 --> 00:20:49.320 Yeah. And they all came, they were involved in DNA. 404 00:20:49.320 --> 00:20:51.780 They all came back with possible solutions. 405 00:20:51.780 --> 00:20:54.440 Yeah. Had gone out and done more interviews 406 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:57.200 with the DHS customers and talked about 407 00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:59.720 the different possible applications. 408 00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:02.760 And we ended up funding one of them to do a 409 00:21:02.760 --> 00:21:05.180 it's called the phase one SBIR that's 410 00:21:05.180 --> 00:21:09.500 just prototype, looking at, or phase two, 411 00:21:09.500 --> 00:21:11.480 phase one is the study, phase two is the 412 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:15.140 prototype developing a desktop version of "will it work". 413 00:21:15.140 --> 00:21:17.260 Yeah. And they showed that it could work. 414 00:21:17.260 --> 00:21:19.100 And then we funded a phase three, 415 00:21:19.100 --> 00:21:21.240 which has turned it into a commercial system. 416 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:26.240 And we really focused on the relationship testing. 417 00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:27.640 That was our big goal. 418 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:30.860 Yeah. But along the way DoD and the 419 00:21:30.860 --> 00:21:32.860 Department of Defense and Department of Justice 420 00:21:32.860 --> 00:21:34.880 both heard we were interested in doing this. 421 00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:39.360 So they came on board and helped fund the development. 422 00:21:39.360 --> 00:21:44.360 So we jointly with the FBI and National Institute of Justice 423 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:47.260 and the Department of Defense, 424 00:21:47.260 --> 00:21:48.740 couple different components within 425 00:21:48.740 --> 00:21:51.500 the Department of Defense, put out a bigger solicitation. 426 00:21:51.500 --> 00:21:55.660 Yeah. And it delivered five first prototypes 427 00:21:55.660 --> 00:21:59.320 of the system that we each got one of those 428 00:21:59.320 --> 00:22:02.620 prototypes and started testing and evaluating it. 429 00:22:02.620 --> 00:22:04.120 It's gonna be like Christmas morning 430 00:22:04.120 --> 00:22:06.540 when that shows up on your doorstep after so long. 431 00:22:06.540 --> 00:22:10.120 Yeah, yeah. And there were fits and starts 432 00:22:10.120 --> 00:22:15.120 along the ways. You know it performed well in some places and didn't in others. 433 00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:17.060 and there'd be a new revision, 434 00:22:17.060 --> 00:22:18.940 a new upgrade of the software, 435 00:22:18.940 --> 00:22:23.200 and we go out and test it, see how it performed. 436 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:26.360 So it's yeah, it's just amazing now that 437 00:22:26.360 --> 00:22:28.040 commercially you can go buy them, 438 00:22:28.040 --> 00:22:28.420 Yeah. 439 00:22:28.420 --> 00:22:31.240 And they're selling them worldwide 440 00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:35.360 for use in doing identities and investigations and stuff. 441 00:22:35.360 --> 00:22:35.860 That's great. 442 00:22:35.860 --> 00:22:39.720 In both in forensics labs as well as for 443 00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:44.520 police offices and immigration and other applications. 444 00:22:44.520 --> 00:22:44.900 Yeah. 445 00:22:44.900 --> 00:22:46.760 And if folks want more information about 446 00:22:46.760 --> 00:22:48.580 the SBIR program, that's, that's information 447 00:22:48.580 --> 00:22:49.660 that's available on our website, 448 00:22:49.660 --> 00:22:51.540 I think in the business opportunities section. 449 00:22:51.540 --> 00:22:53.340 It is a great way for us to work with 450 00:22:53.340 --> 00:22:54.780 private organizations to develop some 451 00:22:54.780 --> 00:22:56.320 really neat technologies. 452 00:22:56.320 --> 00:22:57.999 We have another question from Facebook. 453 00:22:57.999 --> 00:23:00.420 Is S&T working with the FBI to allow 454 00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:02.320 law enforcement officers to view whether or 455 00:23:02.320 --> 00:23:05.040 not DNA has previously been taken? 456 00:23:05.040 --> 00:23:10.040 So I don't know about S&T. But I can tell you 457 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:15.640 that, that was an acknowledgment when 458 00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:18.420 this technology was discussed with 459 00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:22.040 DHS components. In particular Border Patrol 460 00:23:22.040 --> 00:23:27.040 sees a lot, sees a lot of repeat offenders, 461 00:23:30.740 --> 00:23:34.760 so I will use the term. And so it became an issue. 462 00:23:34.760 --> 00:23:38.820 of if you keep, if you collect over and over again, you're gonna get 463 00:23:38.820 --> 00:23:40.800 the same profile over and over again. 464 00:23:40.800 --> 00:23:43.240 and it's a lot of work for, for that. 465 00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:46.940 so there was a conversation and I believe, 466 00:23:46.940 --> 00:23:50.780 that in the FBI's and their sieges system, 467 00:23:50.780 --> 00:23:54.200 and you'll have to forgive me if I'm 468 00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:55.620 getting the system wrong. 469 00:23:55.620 --> 00:24:00.040 There is a check-box now, 470 00:24:00.040 --> 00:24:03.140 is understanding. So that if a sample has 471 00:24:03.140 --> 00:24:07.580 been collected they, when they pull when 472 00:24:07.580 --> 00:24:09.120 they have somebody in custody again and 473 00:24:09.120 --> 00:24:10.580 they do their fingerprint, 474 00:24:10.580 --> 00:24:12.560 and they pull up their their profile, 475 00:24:12.560 --> 00:24:15.080 they can see that the box is checked, 476 00:24:15.080 --> 00:24:16.720 that it has been collected already. 477 00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:18.860 So that, and that's a fairly recent, 478 00:24:18.860 --> 00:24:21.560 like within the last year or so event. 479 00:24:21.560 --> 00:24:24.080 there were a lot of states that were having the same issue, 480 00:24:24.080 --> 00:24:26.300 where they were collecting samples over again. 481 00:24:26.300 --> 00:24:28.920 Somebody might offend in different jurisdictions. 482 00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:31.760 So you didn't know, because they're not connected. 483 00:24:31.760 --> 00:24:33.640 And you would get, you know, 484 00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:36.420 like thirty percent of the submissions were repeats. 485 00:24:36.420 --> 00:24:37.900 And so that's just a lot of work on 486 00:24:37.900 --> 00:24:40.240 everybody's end for it that's unnecessary. 487 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:42.280 I believe that system is in place now. 488 00:24:42.280 --> 00:24:45.960 Yeah, yeah. That's great. Another question from Facebook. 489 00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:48.480 What is the accuracy rate of Rapid DNA? 490 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:51.160 Oh, it was interesting when we set it up 491 00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:54.860 for relationship testing, there wasn't, a 492 00:24:54.860 --> 00:24:57.540 there wasn't a. At first we didn't find 493 00:24:57.540 --> 00:24:59.400 a standard. And I work in the office 494 00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:01.860 of standards. We like to have, you know,[laughter] 495 00:25:01.860 --> 00:25:04.700 you know, a prescribed what should the accuracy be. 496 00:25:04.700 --> 00:25:05.220 Right. 497 00:25:05.220 --> 00:25:09.320 So it turned out the American Association of Blood Banks, AABB, 498 00:25:09.320 --> 00:25:11.900 they're actually just known as AABB now. 499 00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:15.100 They have, they do all the kinship testing 500 00:25:15.100 --> 00:25:18.220 And all, for all the courts of paternity tests, 501 00:25:18.220 --> 00:25:22.760 Oh wow That stand up for all of the courts 502 00:25:22.760 --> 00:25:25.300 across the United States and even internationally. 503 00:25:25.300 --> 00:25:29.340 And they set their threshold at 99 point, 504 00:25:29.340 --> 00:25:31.260 well, theirs is 99 percent. 505 00:25:31.260 --> 00:25:32.560 We actually made a little tougher. 506 00:25:32.560 --> 00:25:35.640 We said 99.5 percent for immigration. 507 00:25:35.640 --> 00:25:38.720 So that, that the two people were, 508 00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:40.880 were verified relationship versus 509 00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:42.740 anyone else in the random population. 510 00:25:42.740 --> 00:25:43.200 Yeah. 511 00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:46.300 And so we, that was our goal from the very 512 00:25:46.300 --> 00:25:48.680 beginning, was to meet at least that and 513 00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:51.060 we have, we have just a small data set 514 00:25:51.060 --> 00:25:52.480 that we got from a paternity 515 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:55.540 testing laboratory of 31 people, 516 00:25:55.540 --> 00:25:59.460 it's four family groups. Some pretty large families, 517 00:25:59.460 --> 00:26:01.900 from grandparents to grandchildren. 518 00:26:01.900 --> 00:26:03.980 And so we've got about forty different 519 00:26:03.980 --> 00:26:07.420 parent-child relationships out of all of those. 520 00:26:07.420 --> 00:26:11.020 And we found that our system is now 521 00:26:11.020 --> 00:26:16.020 at 99.9999996 is the average. 522 00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:21.520 So it's like ten thousand times better than our goal was. 523 00:26:21.520 --> 00:26:22.140 Wow. 524 00:26:22.140 --> 00:26:25.000 Which you know, being a scientist I always 525 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:26.140 wanted to be a lot better. 526 00:26:26.140 --> 00:26:26.680 Yeah. 527 00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:29.080 I didn't think it was gonna be ten thousand times better. 528 00:26:29.080 --> 00:26:30.320 But because when you get out in the field 529 00:26:30.320 --> 00:26:32.240 things don't ever work as well as they 530 00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:35.140 as they really do in the laboratory when you do a lab test. 531 00:26:35.140 --> 00:26:37.440 So you want it to be better than the goal. 532 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:40.200 But we were way better than the goal. 533 00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:43.960 And it produces the same profile that the 534 00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:46.800 traditional forensic laboratory does against standards. 535 00:26:46.800 --> 00:26:49.760 We have standards for which DNA locations 536 00:26:49.760 --> 00:26:50.660 should be collected. 537 00:26:50.660 --> 00:26:51.420 Okay. 538 00:26:51.420 --> 00:26:54.440 And how they're processed and 539 00:26:54.440 --> 00:26:56.460 as I said we didn't really change 540 00:26:56.460 --> 00:26:57.840 the chemistry or anything. 541 00:26:57.840 --> 00:27:01.120 That was all fairly set in standards. 542 00:27:01.120 --> 00:27:02.500 And how that data gets shared, 543 00:27:02.500 --> 00:27:04.640 where, you know, how it gets accessed. 544 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:06.440 That's all set up in standards. 545 00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:09.680 So we're following all of the NIST, 546 00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:11.960 the National Institute of Standards & Technology, 547 00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:13.660 has standards for how that is, 548 00:27:13.660 --> 00:27:16.620 what data you collect and how that's processed. 549 00:27:16.620 --> 00:27:21.620 And you know, I've worked in bio-metrics now for twenty, twenty years. 550 00:27:22.520 --> 00:27:27.020 And you know, I hate to say it but DNA is 551 00:27:27.020 --> 00:27:28.580 a really good bio-metric. 552 00:27:28.580 --> 00:27:29.060 Yeah. 553 00:27:29.060 --> 00:27:33.380 Really works very well, it has very high performance. 554 00:27:33.380 --> 00:27:37.220 You know, and as we've said over and over, 555 00:27:37.220 --> 00:27:38.820 it's the only one that does kinship. 556 00:27:38.820 --> 00:27:41.540 So for this application it's the right tool. 557 00:27:41.540 --> 00:27:43.900 You know, it won't replace or be 558 00:27:43.900 --> 00:27:45.940 replacement any of the other bio-metrics 559 00:27:45.940 --> 00:27:46.240 Right. 560 00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:47.780 I think they are all important. 561 00:27:47.780 --> 00:27:50.680 But for that it's a unique application 562 00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:53.080 or unique, and I said five minutes 563 00:27:53.080 --> 00:27:54.880 was our original goal, if anybody 564 00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:58.080 has an answer to that I would love to hear it.[laughter] 565 00:27:58.080 --> 00:28:00.240 We're still at 90 minutes 566 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:02.540 and getting to even that one hour 567 00:28:02.540 --> 00:28:04.440 has proven to be a real challenge. 568 00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:05.500 I was going to say 90 minutes 569 00:28:05.500 --> 00:28:08.320 though is fantastic, you know traditional 570 00:28:08.320 --> 00:28:12.680 DNA laboratory setting, 90 minutes is a lot. 571 00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:14.580 Yeah It's something you know. 572 00:28:14.580 --> 00:28:18.180 I'm gonna make one comment. What LSS did one 573 00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:21.500 of the first evaluations for the family's relationship. 574 00:28:21.500 --> 00:28:23.860 Yeah. Because it took awhile 575 00:28:23.860 --> 00:28:26.320 to find those standards, those exemplars 576 00:28:26.320 --> 00:28:28.800 to test the machine on, 577 00:28:28.800 --> 00:28:32.100 and we had volunteers in our system 578 00:28:32.100 --> 00:28:35.440 provides samples and we had 16 family sets. 579 00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:37.520 Two of which we knew one was an 580 00:28:37.520 --> 00:28:39.960 adoption scenario and one was a mother, aunt, scenario. 581 00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:42.780 Oh, okay. And we had a hundred percent 582 00:28:42.780 --> 00:28:44.480 accuracy on that test. 583 00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:47.080 And so, all it all got called. 584 00:28:47.080 --> 00:28:48.860 And we did parallel testing to 585 00:28:48.860 --> 00:28:50.700 another laboratory to, you know, 586 00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:53.040 to compare the values from the 587 00:28:53.040 --> 00:28:54.120 Rapid system and from a 588 00:28:54.120 --> 00:28:55.800 traditional DNA laboratory. 589 00:28:55.800 --> 00:28:57.520 And but like I said it was the 590 00:28:57.520 --> 00:29:00.880 parent-child evaluation part that we 591 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:02.380 found the most useful. 592 00:29:02.380 --> 00:29:05.260 Because at the time, it had not been challenged yet. I don't think. 593 00:29:05.260 --> 00:29:08.840 And we got fantastic results. 594 00:29:08.840 --> 00:29:10.120 It was a small test set. 595 00:29:10.120 --> 00:29:14.060 Its a start. It is I mean we were half thrilled to death 596 00:29:14.060 --> 00:29:16.520 that all 16, you know, we got what we expected to get. 597 00:29:16.520 --> 00:29:20.760 Yeah And that the ability to verify claims is 598 00:29:20.760 --> 00:29:23.860 important but also to deny false claims. 599 00:29:23.860 --> 00:29:26.960 So you know, you end up with enough 600 00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:29.100 DNA locations not matching at all, 601 00:29:29.100 --> 00:29:31.500 that it's clear that, that person is not 602 00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:33.880 the mother even though it's an aunt. 603 00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:34.520 Yeah. 604 00:29:34.520 --> 00:29:36.420 So we can do that we found that in all of 605 00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:38.100 our testing that we exclude, 606 00:29:38.100 --> 00:29:40.860 a hundred percent exclude relationships 607 00:29:40.860 --> 00:29:41.800 that are inaccurate 608 00:29:41.800 --> 00:29:44.960 Okay. so for at least parent-child. 609 00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:46.780 It gets much more difficult 610 00:29:46.780 --> 00:29:48.320 when you go to grandparent 611 00:29:48.320 --> 00:29:51.500 to a grandchild, or two siblings. 612 00:29:51.500 --> 00:29:53.300 You know you have the same parents in common 613 00:29:53.300 --> 00:29:55.420 but you obviously don't have the same DNA 614 00:29:55.420 --> 00:29:56.040 Right. 615 00:29:56.040 --> 00:29:59.640 unless you're identical twins that you 616 00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:00.940 Small subset of the population. 617 00:30:00.940 --> 00:30:02.700 Right, it's for a small subset. 618 00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:05.280 DNA is gonna be a little more difficult. 619 00:30:05.280 --> 00:30:07.140 You're gonna want other information 620 00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:10.020 for those, to uniquely identify them 621 00:30:10.020 --> 00:30:12.680 and fingerprints are different between 622 00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:14.940 identical twins, irises are different. 623 00:30:14.940 --> 00:30:15.540 Yeah 624 00:30:15.540 --> 00:30:18.400 Yeah, irises are different. 625 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:21.520 And so, yeah, you'll want to combine 626 00:30:21.520 --> 00:30:23.740 different bio-metrics together, probably. 627 00:30:23.740 --> 00:30:24.620 That's a good point. 628 00:30:24.620 --> 00:30:25.920 Really unique identifications. 629 00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:28.240 Yeah, so it's really, this is, you know, 630 00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:29.880 that one verifying the family relationship 631 00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:31.060 or just, what is their relationship 632 00:30:31.060 --> 00:30:33.660 based on DNA. But really all bio-metrics 633 00:30:33.660 --> 00:30:36.880 play a role in, you know, assessing 634 00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:38.360 are these folks who they say they are 635 00:30:38.360 --> 00:30:39.200 and are they related how they 636 00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:40.180 say they're related and we just wanna 637 00:30:40.180 --> 00:30:42.080 make sure that everyone's being truthful 638 00:30:42.080 --> 00:30:45.580 you know, as it comes to Homeland Security 639 00:30:45.580 --> 00:30:47.980 So we have another question from Facebook. 640 00:30:47.980 --> 00:30:52.720 What are the wider applications in DHS? 641 00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:56.720 So, um, Immigration was obviously 642 00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:00.240 our original driver. We're still working 643 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:02.160 with them and get out and do a pilot test 644 00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:02.580 Okay 645 00:31:02.580 --> 00:31:04.460 with the technology. 646 00:31:04.460 --> 00:31:07.640 we've talked about human trafficking. 647 00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:10.440 I think it can be a real value there. 648 00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:12.220 As it'll take a while. 649 00:31:12.220 --> 00:31:15.200 Policy, there's a lot of policy associated with 650 00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:16.800 different parts of the federal 651 00:31:16.800 --> 00:31:18.680 government, being able to search each 652 00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:21.840 others databases. We have a lot of work 653 00:31:21.840 --> 00:31:24.080 to do to just talk within DHS about 654 00:31:24.080 --> 00:31:25.340 do we need a database? 655 00:31:25.340 --> 00:31:29.660 When we created the technology it was 656 00:31:29.660 --> 00:31:32.160 the entire process was within the box. 657 00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:34.320 You can do five people in a family, 658 00:31:34.320 --> 00:31:36.320 process them in the box and the results 659 00:31:36.320 --> 00:31:39.560 are right there you don't have to database the results at all. 660 00:31:39.560 --> 00:31:44.260 Right. But if that same family member applied again 661 00:31:44.260 --> 00:31:46.800 or was involved in some criminal 662 00:31:46.800 --> 00:31:50.420 prosecution or something you wouldn't have those results. 663 00:31:50.420 --> 00:31:52.720 So there's a lot of policy discussions 664 00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:57.240 that are taking place about the data-basing of that information, 665 00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:01.720 the searching against the FBI's database. 666 00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:04.480 You know, I think if somebody's arrested 667 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:06.600 for crossing the border illegally, 668 00:32:06.600 --> 00:32:08.360 would we want to be able to search that? 669 00:32:08.360 --> 00:32:12.690 There is already a requirement that anyone arrested 670 00:32:12.690 --> 00:32:15.580 criminally and at the federal level, 671 00:32:15.580 --> 00:32:18.480 their profile needs to go to the FBI 672 00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:20.520 to be part of their database. 673 00:32:20.520 --> 00:32:22.040 So figuring out all of that, 674 00:32:22.040 --> 00:32:23.440 and how that's going to happen, 675 00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:25.060 you know I'm a proponent for that, 676 00:32:25.060 --> 00:32:27.840 I think it needs to happen. That we have, 677 00:32:27.840 --> 00:32:31.380 a for known criminals that they're searched. 678 00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:35.580 and you know there's certainly, 679 00:32:35.580 --> 00:32:39.000 unfortunately sexual assaults and things that occur. 680 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:42.160 Yeah, You know that you don't have 681 00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:44.160 fingerprints necessarily for somebody 682 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:46.280 wearing gloves or intentionally 683 00:32:46.280 --> 00:32:49.000 trying to keep their fingerprints from being left behind, 684 00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:50.580 then you'll have DNA. 685 00:32:50.580 --> 00:32:55.580 And so, you know, is that part of the future 686 00:32:55.580 --> 00:33:00.220 of DNA for DHS? Certainly. 687 00:33:00.220 --> 00:33:05.220 We process them today, just using different technology. 688 00:33:05.540 --> 00:33:10.540 And then, I don't, know what are our others? 689 00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:15.360 other uses within DHS? 690 00:33:15.360 --> 00:33:20.360 You know it's its identity and family association. 691 00:33:20.460 --> 00:33:23.420 I mean those are the two big uses. 692 00:33:23.420 --> 00:33:26.260 For various law enforcement purposes. 693 00:33:26.260 --> 00:33:31.260 But you know those are the main goals of DNA. 694 00:33:32.120 --> 00:33:35.300 And for mass casualties, FEMA 695 00:33:35.300 --> 00:33:38.100 has what they call its approved equipment list. 696 00:33:38.100 --> 00:33:40.620 and we're already on their approved equipment list 697 00:33:40.620 --> 00:33:45.100 for systems and for the consumable products. 698 00:33:45.100 --> 00:33:49.580 So any state or local agency can apply 699 00:33:49.580 --> 00:33:52.680 to their FEMA state grant and be able 700 00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:54.360 be able to get the technology. 701 00:33:54.360 --> 00:33:56.920 That's great. You tell them hey you can get it 702 00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:59.180 for it's not free but if they can apply 703 00:33:59.180 --> 00:34:01.420 for a grant and get the technology and 704 00:34:01.420 --> 00:34:05.120 use it for mass casualties or other 705 00:34:05.120 --> 00:34:07.560 preparedness, you know, preparedness for 706 00:34:07.560 --> 00:34:10.780 other events. That's really a big help. 707 00:34:10.780 --> 00:34:13.820 Local agencies. That's good and that information is 708 00:34:13.820 --> 00:34:15.180 available on our website. 709 00:34:15.180 --> 00:34:17.900 as far as how to contact FEMA to get this technology. 710 00:34:17.900 --> 00:34:20.000 So I wanted to just ask a couple more questions. 711 00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:23.880 Will this open job opportunities for field personnel or within DHS? 712 00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:28.020 You know, because the technology is 713 00:34:28.020 --> 00:34:33.020 meant for non-laboratory personnel 714 00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:37.900 I believe the that the current officers 715 00:34:37.900 --> 00:34:39.720 and agents within DHS are going 716 00:34:39.720 --> 00:34:42.600 to be able to operate these systems 717 00:34:42.600 --> 00:34:44.920 the laboratory will be there to support 718 00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:48.040 for additional valuation as needed. 719 00:34:48.040 --> 00:34:52.400 But I don't, I don't, see that at this time. 720 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:53.540 Yeah, no that's fair. 721 00:34:53.540 --> 00:34:55.620 Although I was amazed it was one of those 722 00:34:55.620 --> 00:34:57.380 really amazing things I found out, 723 00:34:57.380 --> 00:35:00.780 is that CBP has laboratories all around the country. 724 00:35:00.780 --> 00:35:02.520 They have eight. Your secrets out! [Laughter] 725 00:35:02.520 --> 00:35:05.840 Surprise! Eight regional laboratories that do 726 00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:08.800 everything from cell phones, and to getting 727 00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:10.360 getting the data out of cell phones 728 00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:12.060 that they find left along the border, 729 00:35:12.060 --> 00:35:15.560 to all of these imports and exports, 730 00:35:15.560 --> 00:35:20.280 whether or not tennis shoes are made in the United States or not, 731 00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:22.400 or made by other countries. 732 00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:24.740 And so there's they've got a lot of jobs 733 00:35:24.740 --> 00:35:27.940 in some Science and Technology fields 734 00:35:27.940 --> 00:35:30.720 I had no idea before I started. 735 00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:32.880 You know, we've gone out and as 736 00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:34.600 part of the partnership, we've gone out 737 00:35:34.600 --> 00:35:36.700 and looked at their laboratories and 738 00:35:36.700 --> 00:35:38.520 done an assessment with them of what 739 00:35:38.520 --> 00:35:42.060 would it take to add Rapid DNA or DNA to 740 00:35:42.060 --> 00:35:43.860 their existing capability. 741 00:35:43.860 --> 00:35:47.320 So we've done cost-benefit analyses 742 00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:52.240 and things on Rapid DNA and how it can be applied across DHS. 743 00:35:52.240 --> 00:35:54.140 I want to end just by asking, 744 00:35:54.140 --> 00:35:56.300 who can folks contact for more information 745 00:35:56.300 --> 00:35:58.060 about Rapid DNA, or you know, 746 00:35:58.060 --> 00:35:59.900 how they can maybe get it out into their 747 00:35:59.900 --> 00:36:01.640 their operational their field. 748 00:36:01.640 --> 00:36:05.460 Yeah, I don't want to give out my own email address.[Laughter] 749 00:36:05.460 --> 00:36:07.480 Understandable. Again if you search on the 750 00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:11.520 website and look for the fact sheet. 751 00:36:11.520 --> 00:36:13.500 Okay. In fact page on Rapid DNA it has 752 00:36:13.500 --> 00:36:16.740 our division capability development 753 00:36:16.740 --> 00:36:20.420 support division, email their address, 754 00:36:20.420 --> 00:36:22.940 and we're happy to answer any questions through that. 755 00:36:22.940 --> 00:36:25.460 And you can probably find me too, 756 00:36:25.460 --> 00:36:27.880 if you search hard enough. [Laughter] 757 00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:29.600 we want necessarily encourage that. 758 00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:31.480 But they can come to the S&T website, 759 00:36:31.480 --> 00:36:33.300 search for Rapid DNA, and we have 760 00:36:33.300 --> 00:36:34.840 some resources available for folks that 761 00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:37.440 has information about, how they can get it 762 00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:38.840 through FEMA or through you know, 763 00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:40.560 any of the companies that have created it. 764 00:36:40.560 --> 00:36:42.940 And with that, thank you both so much 765 00:36:42.940 --> 00:36:44.640 much for your time and for talking to us today. 766 00:36:44.640 --> 00:36:45.830 Thanks for having us today. Thank you. 767 00:36:45.830 --> 00:36:49.630 That was great. Bye everyone.