WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.010 --> 00:00:04.090 [Host] I'm John Virgo with the Department of Homeland Security & Technology directorate and this is 2 00:00:04.090 --> 00:00:08.170 Tech Talk. For those of you tuning in for the first time 3 00:00:08.170 --> 00:00:12.200 S&T is the research and development arm for the department of Homeland Security. 4 00:00:12.200 --> 00:00:16.230 That means we are looking for solutions to help thee 5 00:00:16.230 --> 00:00:20.270 mission of the operational components for DHS 6 00:00:20.270 --> 00:00:24.290 including the nations First Responders and also for 7 00:00:24.290 --> 00:00:28.300 protecting critical infrastructure. And with that introduction that leads us right into 8 00:00:28.300 --> 00:00:32.310 where we are today. With me today is Don Roberts, he is 9 00:00:32.310 --> 00:00:36.330 our program manager for S&T's surface transportation program. Good afternoon 10 00:00:36.330 --> 00:00:40.340 Don and welcome. [Don} Afternoon John and thanks. [Host] So why don't we start off with 11 00:00:40.340 --> 00:00:44.350 just tell us about the surface transportation program and 12 00:00:44.350 --> 00:00:48.370 one thing by the way if you have any questions feel free to type them into Facebook, we'll try to get to them 13 00:00:48.370 --> 00:00:52.380 as much as we can throughout the course of this 14 00:00:52.380 --> 00:00:56.390 Tech Talk. Don. [Don] Sure, so the mission of the surface transportation program 15 00:00:56.390 --> 00:01:00.400 here within S&T is to provide the surface transit property 16 00:01:00.400 --> 00:01:04.420 owners and operators with a integrated layered solution 17 00:01:04.420 --> 00:01:08.430 to mitigating the explosive threat to surface transortation 18 00:01:08.430 --> 00:01:12.450 venues. [Host] So we keep hearing that this is 19 00:01:12.450 --> 00:01:16.470 kind of a challenge. What makes surface transportation, basically mass transit 20 00:01:16.470 --> 00:01:20.480 what makes it so much of a challenge as compared to say airports? 21 00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:24.520 [Don] Well the surface transportation venues, their open systems. 22 00:01:24.520 --> 00:01:28.560 No fixed checkpoints. Throughput 23 00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:32.580 passenger put through 4 to 6 times the most challenging airport environment. 24 00:01:32.580 --> 00:01:36.600 It makes it, you have to develop technology 25 00:01:36.600 --> 00:01:40.630 that is cost effective and fits within the existing infrastructure. 26 00:01:40.630 --> 00:01:44.650 The existing infrastructure can be relatively new 27 00:01:44.650 --> 00:01:48.660 construction to 100 year old construction in the Boston area. So it's very 28 00:01:48.660 --> 00:01:52.670 much a challenge from a technology development stand point. 29 00:01:52.670 --> 00:01:56.680 [Host] Interesting, you mentioned a layered approach. Why don't you tell us about 30 00:01:56.680 --> 00:02:00.690 some of the tools that you are working on and what you mean by this whole layered approach concept. 31 00:02:00.690 --> 00:02:04.690 [Don] Sure, no one sensor will be able to provide 32 00:02:04.690 --> 00:02:08.700 thee type of performance requirements that are needed 33 00:02:08.700 --> 00:02:12.710 for such a high throughput environment. So you have to take advantage 34 00:02:12.710 --> 00:02:16.720 of a layered system. Meaning that sensors will be layered 35 00:02:16.720 --> 00:02:20.730 throughout the transit system. We refer to it 36 00:02:20.730 --> 00:02:24.740 curb to platform. All the way from when you enter the 37 00:02:24.740 --> 00:02:28.750 system to when your getting on the train. To give the operators the 38 00:02:28.750 --> 00:02:32.760 information they need with which to determine if there's a potential threat coming into 39 00:02:32.760 --> 00:02:36.770 the system. [Host] Interesting, this sounds like 40 00:02:36.770 --> 00:02:40.780 there might be some overlap or some 41 00:02:40.780 --> 00:02:44.790 tangent along with Transportation Security Administration (TSA), so how do 42 00:02:44.790 --> 00:02:48.800 you collaborate with them? Why don't you talk about that kind of partnership? 43 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:52.820 [Don] So when we started this program the coordination with TSA is 44 00:02:52.820 --> 00:02:56.820 where we had to start. TSA is our component 45 00:02:56.820 --> 00:03:00.830 customer. They represent the transit agency 46 00:03:00.830 --> 00:03:04.840 their thee sector specific agency for transportation. 47 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:08.870 So they help us understand capability gaps that 48 00:03:08.870 --> 00:03:12.880 requirements for, priorities for investments over to S&T. 49 00:03:12.880 --> 00:03:16.890 So when we started this program, TSA's intermodal program, intermodal division. 50 00:03:16.890 --> 00:03:20.910 They take technology and access for 51 00:03:20.910 --> 00:03:24.920 use within the surface transportation environment. 52 00:03:24.920 --> 00:03:28.940 They take preproduction, COTS Commercial Off The Shelf technology and 53 00:03:28.940 --> 00:03:32.950 assess, do operational test and evaluation on those systems 54 00:03:32.950 --> 00:03:36.970 to be able to provide something useful to the transit properties. 55 00:03:36.970 --> 00:03:40.990 We work a little bit into the developmental test and evaluation. 56 00:03:40.990 --> 00:03:45.000 We work on requirements that we're hearing from the end users as well as TSA 57 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:49.020 and developed technology that has relevant application to the surface 58 00:03:49.020 --> 00:03:53.040 transportation end users. [Host] It sounds 59 00:03:53.040 --> 00:03:57.060 quite interesting and complex. So when your talking about 60 00:03:57.060 --> 00:04:01.080 implementing technology and it's screening process 61 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:05.100 what are the safety or privacy concerns that might come up in something like this? 62 00:04:05.100 --> 00:04:09.100 [Don] Yeah, those are critical design constraints for us. You know we are working with 63 00:04:09.100 --> 00:04:13.120 the traveling public within the surface realm. 64 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:17.140 Thee design constraints, first of all our near, mid and far term objectives 65 00:04:17.140 --> 00:04:21.160 working in the sensors that are omni present, which is the video sensors. 66 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:25.170 But our farther term goals with the standoff detection 67 00:04:25.170 --> 00:04:29.190 sensors and our centimeter,millimeter wave systems. 68 00:04:29.190 --> 00:04:33.190 Safety, maintaining public safety and traveler privacy 69 00:04:33.190 --> 00:04:37.200 are design constraints. The systems right now 70 00:04:37.200 --> 00:04:41.220 that we are developing, you know 100 times lower 71 00:04:41.220 --> 00:04:45.240 than cell phone emissions. It is 72 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:49.250 orders of magnitude, less emissions than public radio waves. 73 00:04:49.250 --> 00:04:53.260 So we are maintaining that piece as far as safety. That has to be a chief concern 74 00:04:53.260 --> 00:04:57.270 as well as privacy. The privacy concern 75 00:04:57.270 --> 00:05:01.270 is that no images will be going to 76 00:05:01.270 --> 00:05:05.280 someone looking at the screen. This has to take advantages 77 00:05:05.280 --> 00:05:09.290 of recent developments in automated target recognition. 78 00:05:09.290 --> 00:05:13.300 We have to, the complexity of the system was so much 79 00:05:13.300 --> 00:05:17.310 throughput and what we're we seeing within the thread stream, potential thread stream 80 00:05:17.310 --> 00:05:21.320 is really, it necessitates automated target 81 00:05:21.320 --> 00:05:25.330 recognition. So the computer is going to be looking at it, not some individual 82 00:05:25.330 --> 00:05:29.340 looking at a individual privacy concern is not 83 00:05:29.340 --> 00:05:33.350 what we need. It would just be to slow to look at individual images. 84 00:05:33.350 --> 00:05:37.360 [Host] By the way if people wanted to see some more information about 85 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:41.370 the technologies that we are working on and I'm going to ask you a little bit more about those actually 86 00:05:41.370 --> 00:05:45.380 in a moment, but they can go to our website 87 00:05:45.380 --> 00:05:49.390 http:// 88 00:05:49.390 --> 00:05:53.400 just put scitech.dhs.gov 89 00:05:53.400 --> 00:05:57.410 and search for surface transportation and 90 00:05:57.410 --> 00:06:01.430 there is actually an excellent video on there. A series of 91 00:06:01.430 --> 00:06:05.440 videos but one longer one that really goes into all of the 92 00:06:05.440 --> 00:06:09.450 details of the technologies, but could you actually give us a high level description 93 00:06:09.450 --> 00:06:13.470 of some of these technological solutions that you are working on? [Don] Sure, absolutely. 94 00:06:13.470 --> 00:06:17.480 What we heard from, we started with going out to the 95 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:21.490 properties. You know it was basically teams of 96 00:06:21.490 --> 00:06:25.510 technology developers, scientists, engineers, test and evaluation folks that 97 00:06:25.510 --> 00:06:29.520 really embedded ourselves in some of the highest ridership properties, 98 00:06:29.520 --> 00:06:33.540 small, medium and large properties to see the breath of 99 00:06:33.540 --> 00:06:37.560 how technology could effect, how it could fit 100 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:41.570 the limitations on spacing, electrical 101 00:06:41.570 --> 00:06:45.590 history all from a technology development standpoint cause 102 00:06:45.590 --> 00:06:49.610 S&T is grounding their design constraints within something that's useful 103 00:06:49.610 --> 00:06:53.630 is really been our mantra in this surface transportation program. 104 00:06:53.630 --> 00:06:57.640 So that's how we started. 105 00:06:57.640 --> 00:07:01.660 We assessed technologies that were coming out of 106 00:07:01.660 --> 00:07:05.680 DoD, Defense Department, academia, national laboratory 107 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:09.720 to see if it had application to fit within these constraints. 108 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:13.730 We learned that the video systems, 109 00:07:13.730 --> 00:07:17.750 we looked at trying to impact near, mid and far term 110 00:07:17.750 --> 00:07:21.780 objectives for these transit properties. So one of the tools 111 00:07:21.780 --> 00:07:25.800 it's working now is our near objective currently in developmental test 112 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:29.810 and evaluation is our FOVEA tool. The Forensic 113 00:07:29.810 --> 00:07:33.820 Video Exploitation and Analyses tool that is working 114 00:07:33.820 --> 00:07:37.820 to make the job of the video analyst much more 115 00:07:37.820 --> 00:07:41.830 efficient and effective. What used to take hours and days 116 00:07:41.830 --> 00:07:45.840 takes minutes and hours to be able to 117 00:07:45.840 --> 00:07:49.850 assess potential lead behind mitigation, 118 00:07:49.850 --> 00:07:53.860 tracking people through the system that may be of interest. 119 00:07:53.860 --> 00:07:57.870 Being able to capture the surrounding circumstances 120 00:07:57.870 --> 00:08:01.880 behind a potential leave behind bag 121 00:08:01.880 --> 00:08:05.890 that was left. Is it just somebody dropped it and didn't know 122 00:08:05.890 --> 00:08:09.900 it or was it somebody really trying to put it there? 123 00:08:09.900 --> 00:08:13.910 It gives those video operators that kind of technology now 124 00:08:13.910 --> 00:08:17.920 next we are looking at automating that. The current FOVEA 125 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:21.930 tool is operator in the loop. The next piece of the objective is 126 00:08:21.930 --> 00:08:25.940 to automate that. Really give the individuals 127 00:08:25.940 --> 00:08:29.950 working in the special operation centers, automated detection of these 128 00:08:29.950 --> 00:08:33.960 and immediately capturing their surrounding circumstances. 129 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.970 Then our more far term goals is really what we talked about a little bit earlier 130 00:08:37.970 --> 00:08:41.990 in the centimeter wave, the millimeter wave. More the 131 00:08:41.990 --> 00:08:45.990 stand-off detection. Being able to see what folks are bringing into 132 00:08:45.990 --> 00:08:50.010 these properties to see if it is a potential threat item. 133 00:08:50.010 --> 00:08:54.020 [Host] That's really interesting. I know that a lot of this stuff is still in development, but 134 00:08:54.020 --> 00:08:58.030 where are we? Do we have any success stories so far of how we are progressing? 135 00:08:58.030 --> 00:09:02.050 [Don] Yeah, I mean I think just in the way we stood the 136 00:09:02.050 --> 00:09:06.060 program up. You know documenting what the requirements were for 137 00:09:06.060 --> 00:09:10.080 technology allows us to have a tool to 138 00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:14.090 say to industry and to academia others in the development 139 00:09:14.090 --> 00:09:18.110 stream. This is what we need and it's a big challenge, 140 00:09:18.110 --> 00:09:22.130 but our main success so far and with 141 00:09:22.130 --> 00:09:26.150 the FOVEA tool is actually helping our 142 00:09:26.150 --> 00:09:30.160 transit properties here in D.C. as well as others 143 00:09:30.160 --> 00:09:34.180 do their job more effectively now. We are still in the developmental 144 00:09:34.180 --> 00:09:38.200 test and evaluation phases. We're doing other pilot 145 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:42.220 sites, but this has been very much a success story 146 00:09:42.220 --> 00:09:46.250 from the end user standpoint. 147 00:09:46.250 --> 00:09:50.270 [Host] You know we talk about, right now we've been focusing on 148 00:09:50.270 --> 00:09:54.300 these technologies, which are kind of high tech 149 00:09:54.300 --> 00:09:58.320 and a little bit futuristic, but we don't want to forget 150 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:02.350 another important element in all of this kind 151 00:10:02.350 --> 00:10:06.350 of a security aspect. You are also the Program Manager for our detection K9 152 00:10:06.350 --> 00:10:10.360 program. So how do K9's play a role in this 153 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:14.370 surface transportation realm and how do you conduct your R&D in that area. 154 00:10:14.370 --> 00:10:18.380 [Don] Well the S&T's detection K9 program porvides 155 00:10:18.380 --> 00:10:22.390 the tools, techniques and knowledge to better understand, train and utilize the explosive 156 00:10:22.390 --> 00:10:26.400 detection K9 teams. The detection K9's, 157 00:10:26.400 --> 00:10:30.410 the explosive detection K9 teams are the most versatile, mobile, flexible 158 00:10:30.410 --> 00:10:34.420 explosive detection tool we have in our arsenal now. 159 00:10:34.420 --> 00:10:38.430 So these types of specially trained 160 00:10:38.430 --> 00:10:42.440 K9's to have been in use 161 00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:46.450 supporting the surface transportation realm is what we've 162 00:10:46.450 --> 00:10:50.460 been calling person search type K9's. They assess 163 00:10:50.460 --> 00:10:54.470 the vapor coming off an individual either 164 00:10:54.470 --> 00:10:58.480 carried or in a bag. They are able to locate 165 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:02.490 and determine that particular threat is being carried in. 166 00:11:02.490 --> 00:11:06.510 So they can work in crowded environments and 167 00:11:06.510 --> 00:11:10.520 over the traditional K9's, which are trained to search static objects 168 00:11:10.520 --> 00:11:14.530 you know trash cans, bags sat on the ground. These specially trained K9's 169 00:11:14.530 --> 00:11:18.540 that have been supporting surface transportation over a number of years 170 00:11:18.540 --> 00:11:22.550 are specially trained to locate a moving threat. 171 00:11:22.550 --> 00:11:26.560 [Host] Now your talking about specially trained K9's, I mean obviously 172 00:11:26.560 --> 00:11:30.580 there's only a few of these I think out there, correct. [Don] Yeah, it's 173 00:11:30.580 --> 00:11:34.590 the numbers are small. It's less than 200 supporting this realm. 174 00:11:34.590 --> 00:11:38.610 It is a tool that we can push out 175 00:11:38.610 --> 00:11:42.620 the perimeter search. We can search larger crowds and 176 00:11:42.620 --> 00:11:46.630 what we took on is unlike technology 177 00:11:46.630 --> 00:11:50.650 where you can calibrate it daily, hourly, minute up to the 178 00:11:50.650 --> 00:11:54.670 minute and you can test it repeatedly over and over and get 179 00:11:54.670 --> 00:11:58.690 statistical significance. That data set didn't exist 180 00:11:58.690 --> 00:12:02.700 for these types of K9's that were 181 00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:06.720 supporting and protecting these types of environments. So thats one of the things we 182 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:10.740 took on here withing tthe detection K9 program is to 183 00:12:10.740 --> 00:12:14.760 understand the strengths and weaknesses of these K9's supporting the surface transportation 184 00:12:14.760 --> 00:12:18.780 and large crowd event scenarios. So we've been doing 185 00:12:18.780 --> 00:12:22.800 a series of perimetric testing, meaning we've been varying 186 00:12:22.800 --> 00:12:26.830 types of things that they are able to detect, trying to get a 187 00:12:26.830 --> 00:12:30.850 framework of just what the operators using these K9's can 188 00:12:30.850 --> 00:12:34.880 rely on daily. So that's been an interesting program. 189 00:12:34.880 --> 00:12:38.900 I mean we're working repeatedly, a couple tests a month to 190 00:12:38.900 --> 00:12:42.910 really, it's not a something you can go and test a K9 191 00:12:42.910 --> 00:12:46.920 1000 times over a weekend. They are a biological entity they get tired. The handlers 192 00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:46.930 get tired. But it 193 00:12:46.930 --> 00:12:50.930 get tired. But it's a program that 194 00:12:50.930 --> 00:12:54.940 we have felt strongly that this data analysis 195 00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:58.950 this information knowledge gap is significant to 196 00:12:58.950 --> 00:13:02.960 surface transportation as well as soft targets. [Host] That's amazing and so 197 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:06.970 we're looking at the use of dogs 198 00:13:06.970 --> 00:13:10.980 especially trained K9's. Were looking at high technology 199 00:13:10.980 --> 00:13:14.980 all things that kind of work together, everything from forensic analysis 200 00:13:14.980 --> 00:13:18.990 to millimeter and centimeter wave detection. 201 00:13:18.990 --> 00:13:23.000 It's really an amazing approach. 202 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:27.010 Makes this challenging. We did get a question from Facebook which kinds of leads us along this line. 203 00:13:27.010 --> 00:13:31.020 So how does the technology help detect threats, while keeping people moving 204 00:13:31.020 --> 00:13:35.030 through the subway system? Obviously with such a large crowd that are usually 205 00:13:35.030 --> 00:13:39.040 in a hurry, how do we do this detection in 206 00:13:39.040 --> 00:13:43.050 this kind of environment? [Don] Yeah, it's a great question. I mean one of the things, one of the design 207 00:13:43.050 --> 00:13:47.060 constraints and one of the advantages that we taken 208 00:13:47.060 --> 00:13:51.070 advantage of is recent breakthroughs 209 00:13:51.070 --> 00:13:55.080 in antenna design and signal processing. 210 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:59.090 It allows us to design systems that can fit within the 211 00:13:59.090 --> 00:14:03.100 transit properties that work at real-time. Work at the speed 212 00:14:03.100 --> 00:14:07.110 of the traveling public and that's something that makes 213 00:14:07.110 --> 00:14:11.130 what we're doing and with this technology a reality in the relative near term. 214 00:14:11.130 --> 00:14:15.140 That we haven't had before and we're taking advantage of 215 00:14:15.140 --> 00:14:19.150 these breakthroughs in innovative antenna design. 216 00:14:19.150 --> 00:14:23.170 Like I said in signal processing to really allow us to embed 217 00:14:23.170 --> 00:14:27.180 seamlessly into the surface transportation realm. 218 00:14:27.180 --> 00:14:31.200 The surface transportation realm with it's throughput 219 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:35.210 cannot afford to have checkpoints. No ones gonna show 220 00:14:35.210 --> 00:14:39.230 up two hours early to ride a subway. 221 00:14:39.230 --> 00:14:43.240 So we have to design technology that fits within the speed 222 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:47.240 of the traveling public. [Host] And that's always been a very 223 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:51.260 unique challenge, is trying to implement security without 224 00:14:51.260 --> 00:14:55.270 impeding the traveling public in particular. 225 00:14:55.270 --> 00:14:59.290 This always gets so tight and it's been a very critical issue 226 00:14:59.290 --> 00:15:03.300 to try to implement 227 00:15:03.300 --> 00:15:07.320 security without just kinda getting in the way and making 228 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:11.340 things so inconvenient for people. [Don] Yes, it's challenging. 229 00:15:11.340 --> 00:15:15.360 [Host] The FOVEA tool in particular you mentioned, is that 230 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:19.360 currently being used anywhere? You mentioned that it was pretty far along. 231 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:23.390 [Don] Yes, it is currently being used here in the D.C. 232 00:15:23.390 --> 00:15:27.410 subway and the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, the WMATA subway system. 233 00:15:27.410 --> 00:15:31.440 Amtrak is also one of our pilot sites 234 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:35.450 that are using it. One of the advantages 235 00:15:35.450 --> 00:15:39.450 of having these partnerships and it's facilitated by the TSA 236 00:15:39.450 --> 00:15:43.480 program in that they have stood up the mass transit test 237 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:47.500 beds and that allows us a transition pathway. 238 00:15:47.500 --> 00:15:51.510 It allows us the access to the end users to embed 239 00:15:51.510 --> 00:15:55.520 with them to really understand what they need 240 00:15:55.520 --> 00:15:59.530 to be be able to develop relevant technologies and spend the governments 241 00:15:59.530 --> 00:16:03.540 funding wisely and not just on science for science sakes. 242 00:16:03.540 --> 00:16:07.550 So yes we have been embedding with operators. 243 00:16:07.550 --> 00:16:11.560 It's been in use, special events in D.C. 244 00:16:11.560 --> 00:16:15.570 and on a daily basis. It has a bit of dual use, it allows 245 00:16:15.570 --> 00:16:19.580 them to do their job more effectively so not just potential 246 00:16:19.580 --> 00:16:23.590 threats but just daily crime and issues that they use 247 00:16:23.590 --> 00:16:27.600 it for. So it's been a big success story for us. 248 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:31.610 [Host] That's excellent. So can you talk about some of the 249 00:16:31.610 --> 00:16:35.620 other pilots you have going on? [Don] Well the pilot 250 00:16:35.620 --> 00:16:39.620 technology, the K9 were also a pilot. We're working with 251 00:16:39.620 --> 00:16:43.630 some of our state and local law enforcement folks here in the national capitol region to do 252 00:16:43.630 --> 00:16:47.640 this parametric assessments to really get from their 253 00:16:47.640 --> 00:16:51.650 standpoint. We're not only determining 254 00:16:51.650 --> 00:16:55.670 the operational performance, probability of detection, strengths and weaknesses 255 00:16:55.670 --> 00:16:59.680 but we're also seeing is it a maintenance burden for these 256 00:16:59.680 --> 00:17:03.690 types of dogs to be maintained in a high level of operational 257 00:17:03.690 --> 00:17:07.700 proficiency. So we are looking at that and trying to assess 258 00:17:07.700 --> 00:17:11.720 how to train them more efficiently as well. 259 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:15.730 [Host And you mentioned something about Boston earlier, what are we doing 260 00:17:15.730 --> 00:17:19.740 up in Boston. [Don] Boston is assisting the 261 00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:23.760 Massachusetts Bay Area Transit Authority is helping us 262 00:17:23.760 --> 00:17:27.770 with, they have a training facility 263 00:17:27.770 --> 00:17:31.790 that was basically an old station, rail station. 264 00:17:31.790 --> 00:17:35.800 So from the standpoint of the standoff sensors 265 00:17:35.800 --> 00:17:39.820 it's a realistic electromagnetic environment. So an 266 00:17:39.820 --> 00:17:43.830 antenna has to work within a realistic environment. So they have allowed us to go in there and 267 00:17:43.830 --> 00:17:47.850 and do some of our developmental testing with our standoff sensor systems. 268 00:17:47.850 --> 00:17:51.860 They are also going to be a pilot site for the FOVEA tool 269 00:17:51.860 --> 00:17:55.880 as well. [Host] I think we've got some amazing stuff 270 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:59.890 going on in this arena and speaking of arenas I just 271 00:17:59.890 --> 00:18:03.910 wanna ask, this technology we're looking at being able to 272 00:18:03.910 --> 00:18:07.930 use well these technologies 273 00:18:07.930 --> 00:18:11.950 this layered approach in a crowded environment like a subway. Would that work 274 00:18:11.950 --> 00:18:15.970 for other venues? Other soft targets like 275 00:18:15.970 --> 00:18:19.990 sports arenas or shopping centers or other tourist 276 00:18:19.990 --> 00:18:24.020 attractions. Things where you have large crowds in a open area? [Don] Sure, well 277 00:18:24.020 --> 00:18:28.040 our design constraints have been what I feel 278 00:18:28.040 --> 00:18:32.070 is the most challenging problem, which is high 279 00:18:32.070 --> 00:18:36.070 throughput subway rail. And that is by far the 280 00:18:36.070 --> 00:18:40.080 open system, no fixed checkpoints. The high 281 00:18:40.080 --> 00:18:44.090 throughput those have been our design constraints 282 00:18:44.090 --> 00:18:48.100 because if you don't design to that, you'll never get there from a technology 283 00:18:48.100 --> 00:18:52.100 innovation standpoint. You have to set that as your hardest case, but 284 00:18:52.100 --> 00:18:56.110 for these other cases for a soft target venue say a 285 00:18:56.110 --> 00:19:00.120 stadium where they have fixed areas and 286 00:19:00.120 --> 00:19:04.130 infrastructure that they can look at the crowds coming in or 287 00:19:04.130 --> 00:19:08.140 areas in their parking lots or others where they could potentially standup something 288 00:19:08.140 --> 00:19:12.150 that people are going around and not having 289 00:19:12.150 --> 00:19:16.160 to queue up like a subway rail then the design 290 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:20.170 constraints could be a little less challenging. 291 00:19:20.170 --> 00:19:24.180 So yeah we're hopeful that as those requirements 292 00:19:24.180 --> 00:19:28.180 come forth as we start working in 293 00:19:28.180 --> 00:19:32.190 getting farther along in developmental test evaluations, 294 00:19:32.190 --> 00:19:36.200 certainly these things have application for those venues. 295 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:40.210 [Host] Excellent and we did get another question from Facebook and they wanted to know 296 00:19:40.210 --> 00:19:44.220 is this technology different than what's used in the airports? 297 00:19:44.220 --> 00:19:48.240 [Don] It's different in the sense that it's 298 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:52.250 well it's similar and we're taking advantage of what 299 00:19:52.250 --> 00:19:56.260 has gone before. We are leveraging innovation in antenna design. 300 00:19:56.260 --> 00:20:00.270 There is the systems in the airports are millimeter wave 301 00:20:00.270 --> 00:20:04.290 type systems. So we are taking advantage of what has gone before. 302 00:20:04.290 --> 00:20:08.300 We're looking at a little different threat than the airports 303 00:20:08.300 --> 00:20:12.320 are, they have a more challenging piece on that than 304 00:20:12.320 --> 00:20:16.330 we do but it's a 305 00:20:16.330 --> 00:20:20.350 then some of the technology that some of the frequency bands are different 306 00:20:20.350 --> 00:20:24.360 but it's essentially, you know luckily we've taken advantage 307 00:20:24.360 --> 00:20:28.380 of the investments that have gone on before to as I said 308 00:20:28.380 --> 00:20:32.390 take advantage of the innovation that has gone on in the antenna design. 309 00:20:32.390 --> 00:20:36.410 So it's different but similar. [Host] Well in the airports they 310 00:20:36.410 --> 00:20:40.430 have the advantage of having a checkpoint so people 311 00:20:40.430 --> 00:20:44.450 will stop and get in front of the technology and get scanned 312 00:20:44.450 --> 00:20:48.460 then move on, but you don't have that kind of advantage 313 00:20:48.460 --> 00:20:52.480 in the subway systems so I guess thats 314 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:56.500 how we are trying to understand how this works a little bit differently where people don't have to do that. 315 00:20:56.500 --> 00:21:00.520 [Don] And more of our designs for our stand-off is flat panel type. 316 00:21:00.520 --> 00:21:04.540 You know being able to build it in the infrastructure 317 00:21:04.540 --> 00:21:08.570 either in walls or in ceilings that kind of thing. 318 00:21:08.570 --> 00:21:12.590 You know as you said, we are not going to have people stop. It's not going to be 319 00:21:12.590 --> 00:21:16.610 a portal design necessarily because the, infrastructure may not support that. 320 00:21:16.610 --> 00:21:20.630 So different design constraints exactly for the physical infrastructure it has to meet. 321 00:21:20.630 --> 00:21:24.640 [host] Very interesting, this sounds like we 322 00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:28.650 got some cool stuff coming down the pike. So how far down the pike 323 00:21:28.650 --> 00:21:32.660 is this. When are we looking at potential deployment here? 324 00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:36.660 [Don] Well for our toughest case, which is the high throughput subway rail. 325 00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:40.670 We will know 326 00:21:40.670 --> 00:21:44.680 whether this technology has merit to fit within that 327 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:48.690 in less than two years. We're doing our developmental 328 00:21:48.690 --> 00:21:52.700 T&E in actual electromagnetic environments as I mentioned the millimeter 329 00:21:52.700 --> 00:21:56.710 wave. We will do our laboratory characterization 330 00:21:56.710 --> 00:22:00.720 to inform our automated target recognition algorithms. 331 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:04.730 This is something that we feel, we will have the proof of principal 332 00:22:04.730 --> 00:22:08.740 in less than two years. And then we will 333 00:22:08.740 --> 00:22:12.750 work with our component customer TSA to do some more detailed 334 00:22:12.750 --> 00:22:16.760 operational testing. So we will take advantage of their mass transit test beds 335 00:22:16.760 --> 00:22:20.770 We rely on our partners that we've been working with to 336 00:22:20.770 --> 00:22:24.780 do some, put some systems into properties and really 337 00:22:24.780 --> 00:22:28.790 understand do they have an operational worth. 338 00:22:28.790 --> 00:22:32.800 And then we also not only do we have performance 339 00:22:32.800 --> 00:22:36.820 constraints, we have costs constraints as well so they have to be done 340 00:22:36.820 --> 00:22:40.830 in an affordable way and it's demand. 341 00:22:40.830 --> 00:22:44.840 When we deploy, how we deploy is all going to be framed out with our transit 342 00:22:44.840 --> 00:22:48.860 properties. [Host] Great. Well if there are any more 343 00:22:48.860 --> 00:22:52.880 questions from Facebook, please type them in and if we don't get your 344 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:56.890 questions before we end this. Feel free to continue to 345 00:22:56.890 --> 00:23:00.910 submit your questions because we will answer them afterwards 346 00:23:00.910 --> 00:23:04.920 and we will continue to get back to them. We do have 347 00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:08.940 another question coming in from Facebook 348 00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:12.950 and basically what partnerships do we currently have with law enforcement community 349 00:23:12.950 --> 00:23:16.970 for these types of electronic systems or for the K9 initiatives? 350 00:23:16.970 --> 00:23:20.970 [Don] Well the electronic systems are focused primarily on the transit authorities so 351 00:23:20.970 --> 00:23:25.010 we work with their law enforcement entities 352 00:23:25.010 --> 00:23:29.030 and get their feedback on requirements sets. 353 00:23:29.030 --> 00:23:33.050 So we are working hand and hand with them, relative to the 354 00:23:33.050 --> 00:23:37.070 K9 nitiatives, the detection K9 program. We are a federal 355 00:23:37.070 --> 00:23:41.090 focal point for state and local law enforcement K9's as well as our DHS 356 00:23:41.090 --> 00:23:45.140 component customer set. So we work 357 00:23:45.140 --> 00:23:49.150 the detection K9 program has our regional event 358 00:23:49.150 --> 00:23:53.180 the regional explosive detection K9 initiatives, where we have outreach 359 00:23:53.180 --> 00:23:57.180 to a number of different cities. We've done about eight 360 00:23:57.180 --> 00:24:01.190 cities right now. At the end of this month we are going to L.A. working with 361 00:24:01.190 --> 00:24:05.200 the LAPD folks and that's where we create our partnerships 362 00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:09.230 to learn from them what the requirements are. 363 00:24:09.230 --> 00:24:13.240 It's a two day event where we do training and data collection 364 00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:17.250 and understand strengths and weaknesses from that standpoint. 365 00:24:17.250 --> 00:24:21.260 So that's the READY events also captured on the website 366 00:24:21.260 --> 00:24:25.270 for the K9 program. Detail the partnership 367 00:24:25.270 --> 00:24:29.280 and outreach that we have within the detection K9 program for S&T. 368 00:24:29.280 --> 00:24:33.290 [Host] That's a lot of partnerships. 369 00:24:33.290 --> 00:24:37.300 So looking forward, another question from Facebook and this is really kinda looking out there. 370 00:24:37.300 --> 00:24:41.310 Do we envision that this new technology if it pans out 371 00:24:41.310 --> 00:24:45.320 will this ultimately replace whats happening at checkpoints 372 00:24:45.320 --> 00:24:49.330 in airports? Not will it, but could it? [Don] Well the S&T 373 00:24:49.330 --> 00:24:53.340 program or the S&T directorate also has a APEX program 374 00:24:53.340 --> 00:24:57.350 screening thats also detailed on our website. 375 00:24:57.350 --> 00:25:01.360 And screening at speed is really looking at 376 00:25:01.360 --> 00:25:05.370 the airport environment, working with TSA to see what 377 00:25:05.370 --> 00:25:09.380 improvements could be made at the checkpoints. 378 00:25:09.380 --> 00:25:13.400 it would certainly be nice if we could 379 00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:17.410 have some of this technology working at a airport checkpoint. 380 00:25:17.410 --> 00:25:21.430 [Host] Imagine going to an airport, just being able to walk in going past all 381 00:25:21.430 --> 00:25:25.440 the screening technology without actually having to stop. 382 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:29.460 [Don] And it's a challenge just like in the surface. 383 00:25:29.460 --> 00:25:33.470 A few different design constraints. We have some 384 00:25:33.470 --> 00:25:37.490 more challenges than an airport does, but the airport has 385 00:25:37.490 --> 00:25:41.510 it's challenges as well to make this work. So we're taking advantage of all 386 00:25:41.510 --> 00:25:45.530 the innovations out there in the infrastructure, academia, 387 00:25:45.530 --> 00:25:49.550 industry and we're trying to create more 388 00:25:49.550 --> 00:25:53.560 partnerships to be able to drive our requirements so 389 00:25:53.560 --> 00:25:57.580 we want more smart people working on our hard problems in Homeland than less. 390 00:25:57.580 --> 00:26:01.600 So that's why we're doing things like this to really get the technology 391 00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:05.600 out, our requirements, our concerns, our needs to take 392 00:26:05.600 --> 00:26:09.630 advantage of any good ideas. [Host] You talk about partnerships 393 00:26:09.630 --> 00:26:13.650 just out of curiosity, who are we working with right now? Who are some of these smart 394 00:26:13.650 --> 00:26:17.680 people we are working with? [Don] Well we're working with some of our developers 395 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:21.700 the MIT Lincoln lab folks, Johns Hopkins 396 00:26:21.700 --> 00:26:25.720 applied physics lab. Taking advantage of 397 00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:29.750 smaller vendor communities thats been 398 00:26:29.750 --> 00:26:33.760 supporting our small business and innovative research initiative as well as 399 00:26:33.760 --> 00:26:37.760 the silicone valley initiative so we're trying to 400 00:26:37.760 --> 00:26:41.770 get our requirements out and solicit those good ideas back. 401 00:26:41.770 --> 00:26:45.780 [Host] Perfect. Just reaching out to all those smart people out there to help work on these challenging problems. 402 00:26:45.780 --> 00:26:49.790 Which what we try to do across the directorate actually 403 00:26:49.790 --> 00:26:53.800 the whole S&T directorate is here to do exactly that. 404 00:26:53.800 --> 00:26:57.810 To go out to those people that are on the operational front, find out what the challenges are 405 00:26:57.810 --> 00:27:01.820 take those challenges out to the smart research and development community 406 00:27:01.820 --> 00:27:05.830 and get those folks to help us address our challenges. 407 00:27:05.830 --> 00:27:09.840 And it's been great stuff. So before we wrap this up 408 00:27:09.840 --> 00:27:13.850 just want to invite people out on Facebook to go ahead to 409 00:27:13.850 --> 00:27:17.860 submit questions, even though we are wrapping up the live we will get to those questions 410 00:27:17.860 --> 00:27:21.870 and answer them through our Facebook page which is 411 00:27:21.870 --> 00:27:25.880 if your on it, I don't need to report it. There is an actual 412 00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:29.890 on your screen is an email 413 00:27:29.890 --> 00:27:33.910 address that you can submit questions to as well. 414 00:27:33.910 --> 00:27:37.920 Visit our website at SCI Tech, DHS SCI Tech 415 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:41.930 at scitech.dhs.gov (SandT.explosives@hq.dhs.gov) 416 00:27:41.930 --> 00:27:45.930 and you'll find lots of great information 417 00:27:45.930 --> 00:27:49.950 about this and other projects. Don thank you very much, before we wrap this up 418 00:27:49.950 --> 00:27:53.960 I just like to ask that we didn't cover that you think people at 419 00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:57.970 home need to know about this project? [Don] No, I think that 420 00:27:57.970 --> 00:28:01.990 one of the key things for us has been grounding 421 00:28:01.990 --> 00:28:06.000 the development in the end users from the beginning. 422 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:10.020 I think that hopefully that the premise of the 423 00:28:10.020 --> 00:28:14.030 program is to keep the public at large and the homeland 424 00:28:14.030 --> 00:28:18.040 secured, safer. It's a challenge and 425 00:28:18.040 --> 00:28:22.060 certainly in the surface transportation realm, but we're 426 00:28:22.060 --> 00:28:26.070 extremely hopeful in the recent breakthroughs that we have 427 00:28:26.070 --> 00:28:30.090 that this is going to be real in the very near future. 428 00:28:30.090 --> 00:28:34.110 [Host] Thank you again Don, appreciate your time. 429 00:28:34.110 --> 00:28:38.130 Thank you to those of you who have been participating today and watch us 430 00:28:38.130 --> 00:28:43.130 keep your eyes on this page for more SCI tech Tech Talks.