WEBVTT

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Good afternoon.

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Welcome to the
Department of Homeland Security

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Science & Technology Directorates Tech Talk.

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So the Science and Technology Directorate

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for those of you who have not tuned in before,

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is the research and development arm

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for the Department of Homeland Security,

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helping to support the mission to protect

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the nation across all of our

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operational components, also supporting

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the nation's first responders and our

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critical infrastructure, and it's quite

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a large task. Today, what we're going to be

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talking about in our Tech Talk series

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is we're gonna talk about trace detection

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explosives trace detection.

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With us today is Dr. Laura Parker, who's

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a chemist with our explosives division

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here in the Science & Technology Directorate.

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Good afternoon and welcome, welcome Laura.

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So, I guess we want to start this off to get a

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real good understanding of what the heck

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is trace detection?

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So explosive trace detection,

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is screening for microscopic amounts of materials,

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explosive materials, and the interest

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is peoples baggage, people, cargo.

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And there are multiple types of technologies

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that can be used to detect trace explosives.

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Today I am going to focus on explosive trace

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detectors, as we call them specifically,

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and those you can detect particles in vapor.

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Wow! So when we say particles how small

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are we talking about when
we're talking about trace?

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What is the smallest trace that can be detected?

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Without giving away obviously, secrets.

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So, with the trace detection we look at the

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amounts found in a fingerprint.

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So very small amounts you can't

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really see them very well with your eye.

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We do not focus on what we call bulk amounts,

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Which you can, you know,
more easily see with the eye.

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So the trace detection is just looking

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for those, those minute particles

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that might be left behind.

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Sometimes we say residues,
particles or residues.

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Excellent. So let me ask this question.

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Obviously you know tracing, detecting bulk

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explosives or larger quantities of explosives

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is obviously important. But why is it

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important to be able to trace, to detect

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these trace amounts of explosives?

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So we look for trace, because that if you

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find trace amounts of explosives,

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that's an indicator, you know, we're looking

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for indicators that we need to look further

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or that you know there's something to

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really be concerned about.

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That leads to maybe using
other technologies as well.

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Now I know most people see this kind of

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thing at airports right? And that's where

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I think most people are familiar with it.

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So where does this kind of trace detection

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take place? Is it only at airports or

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other kinds of environments as well?

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Yes, the traveling public really sees

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the explosive trace detectors that,

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that I'm focusing on today at airports.

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but they're also used anywhere that

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the Homeland Security operates.

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could be at borders, people at
large crowd events, or their their bags.

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Things like that. So they they can be used

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in many different environments.

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So any potentially, any checkpoint type of environment?

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Yes.

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So, when people are going through

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these trace detectors,
going through a screening process,

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what is actually is actually happening

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when the officers are screening for traces

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of explosive material? What's the process?

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What people notice first is the officer

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will have, usually, what we call a swab

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which is a piece of fabric and they'll

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either have it in a wand, that's so the

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fabric will be attached to the end of a wand

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or in the officers hand and they do just

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swab over possessions or people's hands

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and then they insert it into the

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explosive trace detector,
and in that process

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the swabs heated up, material is vaporized

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and goes into the machine and then

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that's where the detection happens,

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inside of that instrument and then

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the officer gets an outcome.

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You know, whether an explosive is present or not.

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So how does that actually work?

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Currently the systems are based on

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eye mobility spectrometry and that's a

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technology, analytical chemistry technique

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that's been around a long time and that

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pretty much looks at the size and shape

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of molecules, compares it to a library

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of many chemicals and then gives

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it gives an outcome.

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So is the basic science still kind of the same

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in understanding these chemical signatures?

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You mean, just the way, so for trace

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explosives detection we do want to know

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what the chemicals are.
Explosives are just a type of chemical.

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So this immobility spectrometry is a

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chemical detector essentially.

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It's just been tuned for, well, chemicals of

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interest, such as explosives explosives.

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Got it. What we call energetics?

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In the conventional explosives world,

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it's energetic materials.

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Okay, got it. So can you give us a little bit

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of an overview of some of the different

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kinds of technologies that S&T is developing

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in this trace detection area?

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So as I said before, I have focused the program

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on explosive trace detectors that are

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based on immobility spectrometry.

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There's a lot of interest in using mass

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spectrometry, which is an analytical

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again, an analytical chemistry tool that's

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commonly used in laboratories across the

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country and around the world for

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identifying chemicals, but it's kind of,

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it's considered a gold standard in the

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laboratory world. But to shrink it

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down to be used in the field is a bit of a

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challenge. So the immobility spectrometry

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also known as IMS technology was fielded

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pretty readily years ago and mass spec

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working on trying to feel that technology for DHS.

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We also look at sampling.

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It's pretty difficult, if you can't see the samples,

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you have to find them somehow.

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sampling is a big challenge in trace detection.

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I do work a lot in more advanced sampling

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methods, you know, how to be more efficient

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with sampling. Also we're trying to move

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away from having to swab everything

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with these pieces of fabric to what we

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call non-contact sampling, where we

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wouldn't have to touch people or their bags.

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But that has challenges as well.

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You can use air to try to move particles

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around and collect them. There can be

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laser techniques that you can use

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to find particles as well.

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Yeah, so but with lasers I just want to

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emphasize we're always concerned about

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safety and eye safety is a component

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of that type of technology.

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That makes sense really exciting.

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There different ways I never really

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thought of it for the sample collection

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aspect of this being just as important,

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if not even more important than

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the ability to analyze the sample itself.

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So, you were talking about how getting

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it down into a small enough size to

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be able to use in a practical environment.

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But also, I would imagine,
it's speed has something to do with it.

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How long does it take for one
of these analyzers to actually work?

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So seconds, for the analysis itself.

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There are requirements when we're

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working on new technologies to keep

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the detection cycle very fast.

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But it also. the you know there's people involved

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in swabbing, that's another reason

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we like to do more non-contact.

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It does take the operator some time

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to swab and insert into the instruments.

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The whole cycle though is seconds because

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we really keep in mind that people don't

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want to wait in airports or even, you know

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the end users and cargo facilities

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and groups like that, they are

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trying to really screen it very quickly.

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There is a training element to
all of this as well isn't there?

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We have spent a significant effort on

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looking at efficient ways of swabbing.

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When I first started in this program

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I didn't realize how much effort goes

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into what kinds of materials the swabs

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should be and it's, there are different types

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of fabric and just getting the right

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right pressure as you swab on the surface,

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takes more than you would think.

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We produced a pressure-sensitive wand

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that we're looking at transitioning for

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training purposes. I mean you wouldn't

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necessarily see it at airports. But with

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a red light green light it helps the to

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train the end-users how much pressure

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they really need to be able to collect,

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collect a sample efficiently.

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That's smart, that's a smart training device.

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So, I wanted to to remind folks out there

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that you can please submit questions and

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we did just get questions from out there.

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So, the first question was how long does

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detection usually take? You actually kinda

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hit on that and in a matter of seconds.

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So we'll go to the second part of that question.

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Is what happens if it comes up with a

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comes up with a positive result for explosive material?

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So if you're in an airport, there are certain

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procedures that the the TSO's follow,

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the transportation security officer.

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And again it can, it depends, usually it's

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they swab you again. To try to make sure...

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Get some validation.

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Yeah, to validate and then depending

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on how that goes a lot of times...

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Guess there's different operational

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protocols for the response side of this.

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but our focus is on the actual

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detection capabilities itself.

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Yeah there's a lot of, we look at the

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requirements for how to validate the

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the instruments as well, and make sure

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that they're operating efficiently.

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So while we're kind of on that topic,

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let's talk a little bit about, you talk

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about validating what the machine is seeing.

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What can you tell me about how we kind of

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avoid false positives or that kind of thing

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in your validation process?

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So the way the technology operates,

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it is a specific, their IMS or the mass spec

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that I mentioned, or even some of the other

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technologies. I'm not as focused on today with them.

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They really do identify the chemicals

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present and explosives are just a

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type of chemical essentially.

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So that, there's a lot of work that goes into

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making sure that
you can identify them properly.

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There are interference at times with

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ya know, just the environment that these

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are used in. So work goes into that as well.

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Everything from the detection equipment

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itself to algorithms and
the analysis for the output.

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And thus the potential for
retest and that kind of stuff.

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So, you know, we're talking explosives.

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I have to ask this goofy question.

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Is this dangerous work?

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Because it's trace amounts, these are

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very small amounts that don't pose a

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threat to people. So the instruments

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themselves are also analytical instruments

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that have been around a long time.

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They're not, they're very safe.

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So, I'll remind folks out there please do

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submit questions. But I've got some more,

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and I'd like to know, is what's the hardest

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thing about trace detection?
What makes it such a challenge?

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It's the sampling is quite a challenge.

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You know making sure that you get sample.

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You know, you can have the best detector

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in the world, and very sensitive, but if you

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don't have a sample,
then you're not going to detect it.

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So, there's a lot of research that goes

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into making sure we're, you know,

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collecting efficiently. As I mentioned, the right

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now we use the manually swabbing.

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That's a lot of workers to do that and we're

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So the interest in moving towards non-contact

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sampling would be, you might

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also reduce some of the variables of

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having to directly swab. Of course you

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may add other variables but there's a

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lot of interest in new ways to sample.

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I guess it's really interesting to understand

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how we're trying to advance the technology.

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I mean obviously we want to keep

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things fast, we wanted as less invasive

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as possible, but yes, we all we also want

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to have that accuracy and that assurance

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that what we're finding is correct

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and that we have the ability to detect

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when there is a problem.

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Thank you folks. It looks like we are

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getting some questions. And one question is,

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What does secondary screening look like?

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Now this is considered secondary

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screening not primary screening, right, normally?

291
00:14:56.800 --> 00:14:59.010
Yes, so should I explain what that?

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Might be a good idea to kind of explain

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it and then we'll address the question itself.

294
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But so where in the screening

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process is trace detection used mostly?

296
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Yeah, so for the traveling public,

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they would experience the explosive

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trace detection piece, when you send

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send your bag through at a checkpoint

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and you walk through, if there's an alarm

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on the bag ,they typically take the bag

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the bag off and they will swab it and

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that is the trace explosive detection

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secondary screening layer. So that's what

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they mean by secondary screening.

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You don't typically see them swabbing

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every single, you know, the workers

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swabbing everything. That would be primary,

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where they, where you always use

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the systems. So within the next three to

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five years there's a lot of interest in

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having expandable libraries. So being

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able to see a lot more chemicals of

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00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:09.980
interest, I'll call them. And the lighter

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systems, systems that are, don't

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use as many consumables. So I'm looking

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at the three to five years from now

318
00:16:23.930 --> 00:16:28.500
I think I answered that. but again there's

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00:16:28.500 --> 00:16:30.690
there's always a driver that whatever

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we're deploying, it gets people through

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quickly, you know any changes have to be verified.

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00:16:36.500 --> 00:16:39.780
Right, okay, interesting.

323
00:16:39.780 --> 00:16:43.770
Another question and thank you folks

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00:16:43.770 --> 00:16:45.810
for submitting this. Can you speak to the use of

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infrared lasers for standoff detection?

326
00:16:49.940 --> 00:16:53.610
There's a lot of interest with the

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advancement of quantum cascade lasers

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and the whole area of optical trace detection.

329
00:16:59.540 --> 00:17:01.980
I didn't talk about that as much.

330
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My program itself isn't as focused

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in that area but that's a very important

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technology area that we could really see

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00:17:13.650 --> 00:17:16.920
some advances over the next, you know,

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I would say at least five years.

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00:17:18.860 --> 00:17:22.260
So for standoff trace detection there's

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00:17:22.260 --> 00:17:24.420
been a lot of interest at whatever, well,

337
00:17:24.420 --> 00:17:28.240
stand off is a term that means different

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things to different people and some

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environment standoff could be fifty

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meters in our environment it could be

341
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you know a meter.

342
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The distance really can affect how well

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you can detect these chemical...
traces.

344
00:17:45.220 --> 00:17:47.220
Yeah, and the traces again, you have to

345
00:17:47.220 --> 00:17:50.480
know where to look for these fingerprint

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size amounts of material. But there's

347
00:17:52.940 --> 00:17:57.620
definitely a lot of promise
in the trace optical area.

348
00:17:57.620 --> 00:17:59.480
No. Really, interesting.

349
00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:01.820
So since we're talking about these

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advances in technology, are there any

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success stories that you can share with us

352
00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:10.720
or recent technology
transitions that have happened?

353
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The movement towards having a mass

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spectrometer as the detection engine has

355
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been a big focus of my program, where the

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hope for that is that you'll be able

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able to get a broader library of chemicals

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of interest that you're looking for.

359
00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:36.400
But it has to be in a smaller package

360
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than a typical mass spec.

361
00:18:37.950 --> 00:18:41.070
The program I have, we have several

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00:18:41.070 --> 00:18:45.540
prototypes when we fund people, performers.

363
00:18:45.540 --> 00:18:48.680
We typically want prototypes that we

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send for developmental tests and evaluations.

365
00:18:51.740 --> 00:18:53.700
And I have several of those kinds

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of prototypes that are gonna be going

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detainee, we call it. Pretty soon, to validate

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and assess how well they're operating.

369
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:04.880
And then the pressure-sensitive wands,

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00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:09.880
I had mentioned, previously, that's a tool that

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00:19:10.040 --> 00:19:14.060
can be used for training, which isn't

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00:19:14.060 --> 00:19:16.720
you know, I like to say, everyone's always

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interested in new detectors because

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they're very wow and whiz-bang.

375
00:19:21.029 --> 00:19:23.369
Making sure you have tools and ways to

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operate them properly.
We also work on that as well.

377
00:19:28.040 --> 00:19:29.740
Yeah, well like you mentioned earlier

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00:19:29.740 --> 00:19:32.300
the sampling is just as important as

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the detection capability and having

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00:19:35.300 --> 00:19:37.800
these new pressure sensitive wands

381
00:19:37.800 --> 00:19:39.920
for training purposes really comes in

382
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:42.680
I think it sounds brilliant, actually,

383
00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:45.419
to be able to understand how to capture

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those, capture those samples correctly.

385
00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:51.500
We talked a lot about explosives

386
00:19:51.500 --> 00:19:53.170
and you say, these really are basically

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00:19:53.170 --> 00:19:57.500
chemical detectors. So I know our focus

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00:19:57.500 --> 00:20:01.040
has been on explosives.
Can they detect other stuff as well?

389
00:20:01.040 --> 00:20:05.260
It's a chemical detector, they definitely can

390
00:20:05.260 --> 00:20:09.300
detect drugs as well, chemical warfare

391
00:20:09.300 --> 00:20:11.290
agents it turns out, there's a lot of

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historical development behind that.

393
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A wide range of chemicals, especially

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in the environment that sort

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00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:24.370
of field of looking at how to detect

396
00:20:24.370 --> 00:20:26.590
chemicals in the environment. We work

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00:20:26.590 --> 00:20:29.170
with a lot of partners too and they're

398
00:20:29.170 --> 00:20:32.710
from all different fields of interest

399
00:20:32.710 --> 00:20:35.900
from like I said environmental chemistry

400
00:20:35.900 --> 00:20:38.040
to you know kind of the traditional

401
00:20:38.040 --> 00:20:43.040
explosives field. And you know, people

402
00:20:43.080 --> 00:20:46.000
that work on standards and how to test

403
00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:49.630
equipment. So it takes a takes a village.

404
00:20:49.630 --> 00:20:51.780
You know, actually takes a big field

405
00:20:51.780 --> 00:20:55.630
to develop these types of systems.

406
00:20:55.630 --> 00:20:57.760
It sounds, it sounds really exciting actually.

407
00:20:57.760 --> 00:21:00.580
How did you get into this line of work?

408
00:21:00.580 --> 00:21:05.580
I'm a PhD chemist by training, and when I joined

409
00:21:05.620 --> 00:21:09.520
Department Homeland Security
Science & Technology Directorate

410
00:21:09.520 --> 00:21:14.520
years ago they had this program
and it matched my skill-set

411
00:21:15.040 --> 00:21:17.380
really well to be able to work with

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00:21:17.380 --> 00:21:20.440
other chemists, and as I said, there are

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00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:23.120
more than just chemists at work on these

414
00:21:23.120 --> 00:21:27.130
kinds of equipment. But the history of

415
00:21:27.130 --> 00:21:29.800
explosive trace detectors is more in the

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00:21:29.800 --> 00:21:32.590
analytical chemistry side, and since I'm

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00:21:32.590 --> 00:21:35.740
a chemist it was a good match and it's

418
00:21:35.740 --> 00:21:38.860
you know, a lot of interesting pieces to

419
00:21:38.860 --> 00:21:42.100
it the materials the even the algorithm

420
00:21:42.100 --> 00:21:45.370
development, you know, really you have to

421
00:21:45.370 --> 00:21:48.000
bring it all together. As a program manager,

422
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:50.730
I like that aspect, as well.

423
00:21:50.730 --> 00:21:54.370
Sounds like a very unique way

424
00:21:54.370 --> 00:21:57.130
and rewarding way to apply your skills

425
00:21:57.130 --> 00:22:01.170
into a very practical and useful mission.

426
00:22:01.170 --> 00:22:03.940
So thank you for your efforts in that.

427
00:22:03.940 --> 00:22:07.840
So, we're getting tight on time.

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00:22:07.840 --> 00:22:09.800
So if there are any more questions from

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00:22:09.800 --> 00:22:12.820
the field. please feel free to submit them.

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00:22:12.820 --> 00:22:16.680
We have, this will be posted on our

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00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:20.320
Facebook page so that
you can view it again later on.

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00:22:20.320 --> 00:22:23.120
If you didn't have time to catch all the answers,

433
00:22:23.120 --> 00:22:25.120
you can submit additional questions,

434
00:22:25.120 --> 00:22:28.380
we will get back to you on
those even after this is over.

435
00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:31.950
So feel free to be able to submit your questions.

436
00:22:31.950 --> 00:22:34.690
As we get ready to wrap this up today,

437
00:22:34.690 --> 00:22:36.700
is there anything that you'd like to remind

438
00:22:36.700 --> 00:22:40.120
folks about your program, maybe you know,

439
00:22:40.120 --> 00:22:41.830
if there's one thing people should know

440
00:22:41.830 --> 00:22:43.920
about trace detection, what is that one thing

441
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:45.740
you want them to go home with today?

442
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[Long Pause]

443
00:22:49.180 --> 00:22:50.240
That's a good question.

444
00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:55.240
To keep in mind that, you know, we're at

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00:22:56.370 --> 00:23:00.030
DHS S&T, we're always trying to find

446
00:23:00.030 --> 00:23:04.780
efficient and cost-effective ways to

447
00:23:04.780 --> 00:23:08.040
screen, you know, at airports or ports of entry,

448
00:23:08.040 --> 00:23:11.140
people at large crowd events, whatever

449
00:23:11.140 --> 00:23:13.800
it is and make sure everybody is

450
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you know, kept safe and the venue is secure.

451
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:20.080
Excellent. Well thank you so much Dr. Parker,

452
00:23:20.080 --> 00:23:22.120
really appreciate you taking the time

453
00:23:22.120 --> 00:23:23.560
to be with us today.

454
00:23:23.560 --> 00:23:25.090
And thank you all for joining us.

455
00:23:25.090 --> 00:23:29.400
Please keep tracking us, watch us on

456
00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:34.400
Facebook and on Twitter at DHS SciTech, S-C-I-T-E-C-H.

457
00:23:36.080 --> 00:23:40.440
And we will see you next time. Thanks for joining us.