WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.030 --> 00:00:01.280 Good afternoon. 2 00:00:01.280 --> 00:00:03.460 Welcome to the Department of Homeland Security 3 00:00:03.460 --> 00:00:06.680 Science & Technology Directorates Tech Talk. 4 00:00:06.680 --> 00:00:09.120 So the Science and Technology Directorate 5 00:00:09.120 --> 00:00:11.060 for those of you who have not tuned in before, 6 00:00:11.060 --> 00:00:12.520 is the research and development arm 7 00:00:12.520 --> 00:00:14.180 for the Department of Homeland Security, 8 00:00:14.180 --> 00:00:16.200 helping to support the mission to protect 9 00:00:16.200 --> 00:00:18.400 the nation across all of our 10 00:00:18.400 --> 00:00:20.380 operational components, also supporting 11 00:00:20.380 --> 00:00:23.060 the nation's first responders and our 12 00:00:23.060 --> 00:00:24.720 critical infrastructure, and it's quite 13 00:00:24.720 --> 00:00:27.340 a large task. Today, what we're going to be 14 00:00:27.340 --> 00:00:29.420 talking about in our Tech Talk series 15 00:00:29.420 --> 00:00:32.180 is we're gonna talk about trace detection 16 00:00:32.180 --> 00:00:34.040 explosives trace detection. 17 00:00:34.040 --> 00:00:36.340 With us today is Dr. Laura Parker, who's 18 00:00:36.340 --> 00:00:38.280 a chemist with our explosives division 19 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:40.230 here in the Science & Technology Directorate. 20 00:00:40.230 --> 00:00:43.200 Good afternoon and welcome, welcome Laura. 21 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:45.820 So, I guess we want to start this off to get a 22 00:00:45.820 --> 00:00:49.200 real good understanding of what the heck 23 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:50.520 is trace detection? 24 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:53.200 So explosive trace detection, 25 00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:58.180 is screening for microscopic amounts of materials, 26 00:00:58.180 --> 00:01:02.220 explosive materials, and the interest 27 00:01:02.220 --> 00:01:05.960 is peoples baggage, people, cargo. 28 00:01:05.960 --> 00:01:10.640 And there are multiple types of technologies 29 00:01:11.130 --> 00:01:14.020 that can be used to detect trace explosives. 30 00:01:14.020 --> 00:01:17.380 Today I am going to focus on explosive trace 31 00:01:17.380 --> 00:01:20.000 detectors, as we call them specifically, 32 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:25.000 and those you can detect particles in vapor. 33 00:01:25.300 --> 00:01:29.260 Wow! So when we say particles how small 34 00:01:29.260 --> 00:01:31.280 are we talking about when we're talking about trace? 35 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:34.500 What is the smallest trace that can be detected? 36 00:01:34.500 --> 00:01:36.900 Without giving away obviously, secrets. 37 00:01:37.229 --> 00:01:41.310 So, with the trace detection we look at the 38 00:01:41.310 --> 00:01:43.760 amounts found in a fingerprint. 39 00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:45.760 So very small amounts you can't 40 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:48.980 really see them very well with your eye. 41 00:01:48.980 --> 00:01:52.480 We do not focus on what we call bulk amounts, 42 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:56.060 Which you can, you know, more easily see with the eye. 43 00:01:56.060 --> 00:01:57.640 So the trace detection is just looking 44 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:00.220 for those, those minute particles 45 00:02:00.220 --> 00:02:01.800 that might be left behind. 46 00:02:01.800 --> 00:02:05.240 Sometimes we say residues, particles or residues. 47 00:02:05.240 --> 00:02:08.900 Excellent. So let me ask this question. 48 00:02:08.900 --> 00:02:13.900 Obviously you know tracing, detecting bulk 49 00:02:14.920 --> 00:02:17.260 explosives or larger quantities of explosives 50 00:02:17.260 --> 00:02:19.780 is obviously important. But why is it 51 00:02:19.780 --> 00:02:21.940 important to be able to trace, to detect 52 00:02:21.940 --> 00:02:24.540 these trace amounts of explosives? 53 00:02:24.540 --> 00:02:28.900 So we look for trace, because that if you 54 00:02:28.900 --> 00:02:30.840 find trace amounts of explosives, 55 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:32.700 that's an indicator, you know, we're looking 56 00:02:32.700 --> 00:02:36.300 for indicators that we need to look further 57 00:02:36.300 --> 00:02:38.260 or that you know there's something to 58 00:02:38.260 --> 00:02:40.700 really be concerned about. 59 00:02:40.700 --> 00:02:45.700 That leads to maybe using other technologies as well. 60 00:02:46.440 --> 00:02:51.440 Now I know most people see this kind of 61 00:02:51.500 --> 00:02:55.000 thing at airports right? And that's where 62 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:56.980 I think most people are familiar with it. 63 00:02:56.980 --> 00:02:59.720 So where does this kind of trace detection 64 00:02:59.720 --> 00:03:01.480 take place? Is it only at airports or 65 00:03:01.480 --> 00:03:03.300 other kinds of environments as well? 66 00:03:03.300 --> 00:03:06.660 Yes, the traveling public really sees 67 00:03:06.660 --> 00:03:09.720 the explosive trace detectors that, 68 00:03:09.720 --> 00:03:12.720 that I'm focusing on today at airports. 69 00:03:12.720 --> 00:03:15.680 but they're also used anywhere that 70 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:18.500 the Homeland Security operates. 71 00:03:18.500 --> 00:03:23.500 could be at borders, people at large crowd events, or their their bags. 72 00:03:26.460 --> 00:03:29.360 Things like that. So they they can be used 73 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:30.739 in many different environments. 74 00:03:30.739 --> 00:03:34.600 So any potentially, any checkpoint type of environment? 75 00:03:34.600 --> 00:03:35.740 Yes. 76 00:03:35.740 --> 00:03:39.460 So, when people are going through 77 00:03:39.460 --> 00:03:43.640 these trace detectors, going through a screening process, 78 00:03:43.640 --> 00:03:45.400 what is actually is actually happening 79 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:48.540 when the officers are screening for traces 80 00:03:48.540 --> 00:03:51.440 of explosive material? What's the process? 81 00:03:51.440 --> 00:03:56.440 What people notice first is the officer 82 00:03:56.810 --> 00:03:59.840 will have, usually, what we call a swab 83 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:02.239 which is a piece of fabric and they'll 84 00:04:02.239 --> 00:04:06.230 either have it in a wand, that's so the 85 00:04:06.230 --> 00:04:08.160 fabric will be attached to the end of a wand 86 00:04:08.160 --> 00:04:11.360 or in the officers hand and they do just 87 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:14.500 swab over possessions or people's hands 88 00:04:14.500 --> 00:04:17.120 and then they insert it into the 89 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:20.480 explosive trace detector, and in that process 90 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:24.160 the swabs heated up, material is vaporized 91 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:26.780 and goes into the machine and then 92 00:04:26.780 --> 00:04:28.280 that's where the detection happens, 93 00:04:28.280 --> 00:04:31.460 inside of that instrument and then 94 00:04:31.460 --> 00:04:34.680 the officer gets an outcome. 95 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:37.700 You know, whether an explosive is present or not. 96 00:04:37.700 --> 00:04:40.460 So how does that actually work? 97 00:04:40.460 --> 00:04:44.370 Currently the systems are based on 98 00:04:44.370 --> 00:04:47.480 eye mobility spectrometry and that's a 99 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.880 technology, analytical chemistry technique 100 00:04:50.880 --> 00:04:53.520 that's been around a long time and that 101 00:04:53.520 --> 00:04:57.180 pretty much looks at the size and shape 102 00:04:57.180 --> 00:05:01.140 of molecules, compares it to a library 103 00:05:01.140 --> 00:05:04.600 of many chemicals and then gives 104 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:05.740 it gives an outcome. 105 00:05:05.740 --> 00:05:10.740 So is the basic science still kind of the same 106 00:05:10.740 --> 00:05:14.020 in understanding these chemical signatures? 107 00:05:14.020 --> 00:05:19.020 You mean, just the way, so for trace 108 00:05:21.760 --> 00:05:24.260 explosives detection we do want to know 109 00:05:24.260 --> 00:05:27.690 what the chemicals are. Explosives are just a type of chemical. 110 00:05:27.690 --> 00:05:31.640 So this immobility spectrometry is a 111 00:05:31.640 --> 00:05:33.080 chemical detector essentially. 112 00:05:33.080 --> 00:05:38.080 It's just been tuned for, well, chemicals of 113 00:05:38.580 --> 00:05:40.800 interest, such as explosives explosives. 114 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:44.490 Got it. What we call energetics? 115 00:05:44.490 --> 00:05:46.290 In the conventional explosives world, 116 00:05:46.290 --> 00:05:48.520 it's energetic materials. 117 00:05:48.520 --> 00:05:52.760 Okay, got it. So can you give us a little bit 118 00:05:52.760 --> 00:05:55.260 of an overview of some of the different 119 00:05:55.260 --> 00:05:58.500 kinds of technologies that S&T is developing 120 00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:00.080 in this trace detection area? 121 00:06:00.080 --> 00:06:05.080 So as I said before, I have focused the program 122 00:06:05.910 --> 00:06:08.340 on explosive trace detectors that are 123 00:06:08.340 --> 00:06:10.320 based on immobility spectrometry. 124 00:06:10.320 --> 00:06:12.860 There's a lot of interest in using mass 125 00:06:12.860 --> 00:06:16.960 spectrometry, which is an analytical 126 00:06:16.960 --> 00:06:20.729 again, an analytical chemistry tool that's 127 00:06:21.180 --> 00:06:23.970 commonly used in laboratories across the 128 00:06:23.970 --> 00:06:25.840 country and around the world for 129 00:06:25.840 --> 00:06:30.840 identifying chemicals, but it's kind of, 130 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:34.380 it's considered a gold standard in the 131 00:06:34.380 --> 00:06:37.920 laboratory world. But to shrink it 132 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:41.520 down to be used in the field is a bit of a 133 00:06:41.520 --> 00:06:45.820 challenge. So the immobility spectrometry 134 00:06:45.820 --> 00:06:49.340 also known as IMS technology was fielded 135 00:06:49.340 --> 00:06:52.860 pretty readily years ago and mass spec 136 00:06:52.860 --> 00:06:57.040 working on trying to feel that technology for DHS. 137 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.860 We also look at sampling. 138 00:06:59.860 --> 00:07:04.860 It's pretty difficult, if you can't see the samples, 139 00:07:06.100 --> 00:07:08.340 you have to find them somehow. 140 00:07:08.340 --> 00:07:12.580 sampling is a big challenge in trace detection. 141 00:07:12.580 --> 00:07:17.470 I do work a lot in more advanced sampling 142 00:07:17.470 --> 00:07:19.820 methods, you know, how to be more efficient 143 00:07:19.820 --> 00:07:24.080 with sampling. Also we're trying to move 144 00:07:24.080 --> 00:07:27.340 away from having to swab everything 145 00:07:27.340 --> 00:07:30.060 with these pieces of fabric to what we 146 00:07:30.060 --> 00:07:32.960 call non-contact sampling, where we 147 00:07:32.960 --> 00:07:35.260 wouldn't have to touch people or their bags. 148 00:07:35.260 --> 00:07:37.660 But that has challenges as well. 149 00:07:37.660 --> 00:07:40.740 You can use air to try to move particles 150 00:07:40.740 --> 00:07:43.720 around and collect them. There can be 151 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:46.020 laser techniques that you can use 152 00:07:46.020 --> 00:07:48.040 to find particles as well. 153 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:50.890 Yeah, so but with lasers I just want to 154 00:07:50.890 --> 00:07:53.100 emphasize we're always concerned about 155 00:07:53.100 --> 00:07:58.100 safety and eye safety is a component 156 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:01.200 of that type of technology. 157 00:08:01.200 --> 00:08:04.390 That makes sense really exciting. 158 00:08:04.390 --> 00:08:06.310 There different ways I never really 159 00:08:06.310 --> 00:08:10.320 thought of it for the sample collection 160 00:08:10.320 --> 00:08:12.490 aspect of this being just as important, 161 00:08:12.490 --> 00:08:14.140 if not even more important than 162 00:08:14.140 --> 00:08:17.420 the ability to analyze the sample itself. 163 00:08:17.420 --> 00:08:22.240 So, you were talking about how getting 164 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:24.160 it down into a small enough size to 165 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:26.540 be able to use in a practical environment. 166 00:08:26.540 --> 00:08:29.620 But also, I would imagine, it's speed has something to do with it. 167 00:08:29.620 --> 00:08:32.940 How long does it take for one of these analyzers to actually work? 168 00:08:32.940 --> 00:08:37.560 So seconds, for the analysis itself. 169 00:08:37.560 --> 00:08:40.900 There are requirements when we're 170 00:08:40.900 --> 00:08:43.540 working on new technologies to keep 171 00:08:43.540 --> 00:08:48.540 the detection cycle very fast. 172 00:08:48.760 --> 00:08:52.340 But it also. the you know there's people involved 173 00:08:52.340 --> 00:08:54.860 in swabbing, that's another reason 174 00:08:54.860 --> 00:08:57.840 we like to do more non-contact. 175 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:01.040 It does take the operator some time 176 00:09:01.040 --> 00:09:04.960 to swab and insert into the instruments. 177 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:08.220 The whole cycle though is seconds because 178 00:09:08.220 --> 00:09:10.890 we really keep in mind that people don't 179 00:09:10.890 --> 00:09:15.040 want to wait in airports or even, you know 180 00:09:15.040 --> 00:09:17.800 the end users and cargo facilities 181 00:09:17.800 --> 00:09:19.170 and groups like that, they are 182 00:09:19.170 --> 00:09:21.560 trying to really screen it very quickly. 183 00:09:21.560 --> 00:09:25.580 There is a training element to all of this as well isn't there? 184 00:09:25.580 --> 00:09:29.260 We have spent a significant effort on 185 00:09:29.260 --> 00:09:33.260 looking at efficient ways of swabbing. 186 00:09:33.260 --> 00:09:36.560 When I first started in this program 187 00:09:36.560 --> 00:09:38.520 I didn't realize how much effort goes 188 00:09:38.520 --> 00:09:41.500 into what kinds of materials the swabs 189 00:09:41.500 --> 00:09:43.980 should be and it's, there are different types 190 00:09:43.980 --> 00:09:48.200 of fabric and just getting the right 191 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:53.200 right pressure as you swab on the surface, 192 00:09:53.760 --> 00:09:55.890 takes more than you would think. 193 00:09:55.890 --> 00:09:59.000 We produced a pressure-sensitive wand 194 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:02.670 that we're looking at transitioning for 195 00:10:02.670 --> 00:10:04.600 training purposes. I mean you wouldn't 196 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:08.340 necessarily see it at airports. But with 197 00:10:08.340 --> 00:10:11.790 a red light green light it helps the to 198 00:10:11.790 --> 00:10:14.120 train the end-users how much pressure 199 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:16.300 they really need to be able to collect, 200 00:10:16.300 --> 00:10:17.620 collect a sample efficiently. 201 00:10:17.620 --> 00:10:19.840 That's smart, that's a smart training device. 202 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:22.600 So, I wanted to to remind folks out there 203 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:24.810 that you can please submit questions and 204 00:10:24.810 --> 00:10:27.690 we did just get questions from out there. 205 00:10:27.690 --> 00:10:30.690 So, the first question was how long does 206 00:10:30.690 --> 00:10:32.480 detection usually take? You actually kinda 207 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:34.420 hit on that and in a matter of seconds. 208 00:10:34.420 --> 00:10:36.820 So we'll go to the second part of that question. 209 00:10:36.820 --> 00:10:38.360 Is what happens if it comes up with a 210 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:40.760 comes up with a positive result for explosive material? 211 00:10:40.760 --> 00:10:45.760 So if you're in an airport, there are certain 212 00:10:47.800 --> 00:10:52.760 procedures that the the TSO's follow, 213 00:10:52.760 --> 00:10:55.160 the transportation security officer. 214 00:10:55.160 --> 00:10:59.100 And again it can, it depends, usually it's 215 00:10:59.100 --> 00:11:02.280 they swab you again. To try to make sure... 216 00:11:02.280 --> 00:11:03.180 Get some validation. 217 00:11:03.180 --> 00:11:05.720 Yeah, to validate and then depending 218 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:08.660 on how that goes a lot of times... 219 00:11:08.660 --> 00:11:09.740 Guess there's different operational 220 00:11:09.740 --> 00:11:13.200 protocols for the response side of this. 221 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:16.080 but our focus is on the actual 222 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:18.840 detection capabilities itself. 223 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:23.600 Yeah there's a lot of, we look at the 224 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:27.640 requirements for how to validate the 225 00:11:27.640 --> 00:11:31.760 the instruments as well, and make sure 226 00:11:31.760 --> 00:11:33.720 that they're operating efficiently. 227 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:37.280 So while we're kind of on that topic, 228 00:11:37.280 --> 00:11:40.200 let's talk a little bit about, you talk 229 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:43.020 about validating what the machine is seeing. 230 00:11:43.020 --> 00:11:45.140 What can you tell me about how we kind of 231 00:11:45.140 --> 00:11:48.500 avoid false positives or that kind of thing 232 00:11:48.500 --> 00:11:51.520 in your validation process? 233 00:11:51.520 --> 00:11:56.520 So the way the technology operates, 234 00:11:58.680 --> 00:12:03.680 it is a specific, their IMS or the mass spec 235 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:07.010 that I mentioned, or even some of the other 236 00:12:07.010 --> 00:12:09.980 technologies. I'm not as focused on today with them. 237 00:12:09.980 --> 00:12:13.120 They really do identify the chemicals 238 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:15.660 present and explosives are just a 239 00:12:15.660 --> 00:12:18.460 type of chemical essentially. 240 00:12:18.460 --> 00:12:21.400 So that, there's a lot of work that goes into 241 00:12:21.400 --> 00:12:24.980 making sure that you can identify them properly. 242 00:12:24.980 --> 00:12:28.820 There are interference at times with 243 00:12:28.820 --> 00:12:30.830 ya know, just the environment that these 244 00:12:30.830 --> 00:12:34.280 are used in. So work goes into that as well. 245 00:12:34.280 --> 00:12:36.620 Everything from the detection equipment 246 00:12:36.620 --> 00:12:41.620 itself to algorithms and the analysis for the output. 247 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:46.980 And thus the potential for retest and that kind of stuff. 248 00:12:46.980 --> 00:12:49.260 So, you know, we're talking explosives. 249 00:12:49.260 --> 00:12:51.560 I have to ask this goofy question. 250 00:12:51.560 --> 00:12:53.540 Is this dangerous work? 251 00:12:53.540 --> 00:12:57.560 Because it's trace amounts, these are 252 00:12:57.560 --> 00:13:01.460 very small amounts that don't pose a 253 00:13:01.460 --> 00:13:04.220 threat to people. So the instruments 254 00:13:04.220 --> 00:13:09.220 themselves are also analytical instruments 255 00:13:10.660 --> 00:13:12.860 that have been around a long time. 256 00:13:14.040 --> 00:13:18.940 They're not, they're very safe. 257 00:13:18.940 --> 00:13:22.019 So, I'll remind folks out there please do 258 00:13:22.019 --> 00:13:24.800 submit questions. But I've got some more, 259 00:13:24.800 --> 00:13:27.640 and I'd like to know, is what's the hardest 260 00:13:27.640 --> 00:13:31.360 thing about trace detection? What makes it such a challenge? 261 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:34.820 It's the sampling is quite a challenge. 262 00:13:34.820 --> 00:13:36.920 You know making sure that you get sample. 263 00:13:36.920 --> 00:13:38.790 You know, you can have the best detector 264 00:13:38.790 --> 00:13:41.940 in the world, and very sensitive, but if you 265 00:13:41.940 --> 00:13:44.840 don't have a sample, then you're not going to detect it. 266 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:47.400 So, there's a lot of research that goes 267 00:13:47.400 --> 00:13:49.940 into making sure we're, you know, 268 00:13:49.940 --> 00:13:54.940 collecting efficiently. As I mentioned, the right 269 00:13:55.560 --> 00:13:59.120 now we use the manually swabbing. 270 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:04.060 That's a lot of workers to do that and we're 271 00:14:04.060 --> 00:14:07.780 So the interest in moving towards non-contact 272 00:14:07.780 --> 00:14:09.779 sampling would be, you might 273 00:14:09.779 --> 00:14:12.140 also reduce some of the variables of 274 00:14:12.140 --> 00:14:15.149 having to directly swab. Of course you 275 00:14:15.149 --> 00:14:17.279 may add other variables but there's a 276 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:20.180 lot of interest in new ways to sample. 277 00:14:20.180 --> 00:14:23.660 I guess it's really interesting to understand 278 00:14:23.660 --> 00:14:26.160 how we're trying to advance the technology. 279 00:14:26.160 --> 00:14:27.680 I mean obviously we want to keep 280 00:14:27.680 --> 00:14:31.000 things fast, we wanted as less invasive 281 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:32.980 as possible, but yes, we all we also want 282 00:14:32.980 --> 00:14:35.140 to have that accuracy and that assurance 283 00:14:35.140 --> 00:14:37.960 that what we're finding is correct 284 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:41.860 and that we have the ability to detect 285 00:14:41.860 --> 00:14:44.279 when there is a problem. 286 00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:47.360 Thank you folks. It looks like we are 287 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:49.220 getting some questions. And one question is, 288 00:14:49.220 --> 00:14:52.280 What does secondary screening look like? 289 00:14:52.280 --> 00:14:53.980 Now this is considered secondary 290 00:14:53.980 --> 00:14:56.800 screening not primary screening, right, normally? 291 00:14:56.800 --> 00:14:59.010 Yes, so should I explain what that? 292 00:14:59.010 --> 00:15:00.480 Might be a good idea to kind of explain 293 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:02.640 it and then we'll address the question itself. 294 00:15:02.640 --> 00:15:06.600 But so where in the screening 295 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:09.440 process is trace detection used mostly? 296 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:11.600 Yeah, so for the traveling public, 297 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:16.600 they would experience the explosive 298 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:19.900 trace detection piece, when you send 299 00:15:19.900 --> 00:15:21.600 send your bag through at a checkpoint 300 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:24.630 and you walk through, if there's an alarm 301 00:15:24.630 --> 00:15:27.860 on the bag ,they typically take the bag 302 00:15:27.860 --> 00:15:30.660 the bag off and they will swab it and 303 00:15:30.660 --> 00:15:34.250 that is the trace explosive detection 304 00:15:34.250 --> 00:15:36.960 secondary screening layer. So that's what 305 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:38.200 they mean by secondary screening. 306 00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:42.390 You don't typically see them swabbing 307 00:15:42.390 --> 00:15:44.300 every single, you know, the workers 308 00:15:44.300 --> 00:15:47.080 swabbing everything. That would be primary, 309 00:15:47.080 --> 00:15:49.650 where they, where you always use 310 00:15:49.650 --> 00:15:54.580 the systems. So within the next three to 311 00:15:54.580 --> 00:15:56.960 five years there's a lot of interest in 312 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:01.290 having expandable libraries. So being 313 00:16:01.290 --> 00:16:04.980 able to see a lot more chemicals of 314 00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:09.980 interest, I'll call them. And the lighter 315 00:16:11.570 --> 00:16:16.570 systems, systems that are, don't 316 00:16:18.180 --> 00:16:21.030 use as many consumables. So I'm looking 317 00:16:21.030 --> 00:16:23.930 at the three to five years from now 318 00:16:23.930 --> 00:16:28.500 I think I answered that. but again there's 319 00:16:28.500 --> 00:16:30.690 there's always a driver that whatever 320 00:16:30.690 --> 00:16:32.970 we're deploying, it gets people through 321 00:16:32.970 --> 00:16:36.500 quickly, you know any changes have to be verified. 322 00:16:36.500 --> 00:16:39.780 Right, okay, interesting. 323 00:16:39.780 --> 00:16:43.770 Another question and thank you folks 324 00:16:43.770 --> 00:16:45.810 for submitting this. Can you speak to the use of 325 00:16:45.810 --> 00:16:49.940 infrared lasers for standoff detection? 326 00:16:49.940 --> 00:16:53.610 There's a lot of interest with the 327 00:16:53.610 --> 00:16:56.250 advancement of quantum cascade lasers 328 00:16:56.250 --> 00:16:59.540 and the whole area of optical trace detection. 329 00:16:59.540 --> 00:17:01.980 I didn't talk about that as much. 330 00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:04.530 My program itself isn't as focused 331 00:17:04.530 --> 00:17:09.530 in that area but that's a very important 332 00:17:10.670 --> 00:17:13.650 technology area that we could really see 333 00:17:13.650 --> 00:17:16.920 some advances over the next, you know, 334 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:18.860 I would say at least five years. 335 00:17:18.860 --> 00:17:22.260 So for standoff trace detection there's 336 00:17:22.260 --> 00:17:24.420 been a lot of interest at whatever, well, 337 00:17:24.420 --> 00:17:28.240 stand off is a term that means different 338 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:31.290 things to different people and some 339 00:17:31.290 --> 00:17:32.940 environment standoff could be fifty 340 00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:35.100 meters in our environment it could be 341 00:17:35.100 --> 00:17:37.169 you know a meter. 342 00:17:37.169 --> 00:17:41.320 The distance really can affect how well 343 00:17:41.320 --> 00:17:45.220 you can detect these chemical... traces. 344 00:17:45.220 --> 00:17:47.220 Yeah, and the traces again, you have to 345 00:17:47.220 --> 00:17:50.480 know where to look for these fingerprint 346 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:52.940 size amounts of material. But there's 347 00:17:52.940 --> 00:17:57.620 definitely a lot of promise in the trace optical area. 348 00:17:57.620 --> 00:17:59.480 No. Really, interesting. 349 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:01.820 So since we're talking about these 350 00:18:01.820 --> 00:18:03.540 advances in technology, are there any 351 00:18:03.540 --> 00:18:05.720 success stories that you can share with us 352 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:10.720 or recent technology transitions that have happened? 353 00:18:11.020 --> 00:18:14.180 The movement towards having a mass 354 00:18:14.180 --> 00:18:17.190 spectrometer as the detection engine has 355 00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:22.190 been a big focus of my program, where the 356 00:18:22.999 --> 00:18:27.600 hope for that is that you'll be able 357 00:18:27.600 --> 00:18:31.800 able to get a broader library of chemicals 358 00:18:31.800 --> 00:18:33.900 of interest that you're looking for. 359 00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:36.400 But it has to be in a smaller package 360 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:37.950 than a typical mass spec. 361 00:18:37.950 --> 00:18:41.070 The program I have, we have several 362 00:18:41.070 --> 00:18:45.540 prototypes when we fund people, performers. 363 00:18:45.540 --> 00:18:48.680 We typically want prototypes that we 364 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:51.740 send for developmental tests and evaluations. 365 00:18:51.740 --> 00:18:53.700 And I have several of those kinds 366 00:18:53.700 --> 00:18:56.180 of prototypes that are gonna be going 367 00:18:56.180 --> 00:18:59.680 detainee, we call it. Pretty soon, to validate 368 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:02.640 and assess how well they're operating. 369 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:04.880 And then the pressure-sensitive wands, 370 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:09.880 I had mentioned, previously, that's a tool that 371 00:19:10.040 --> 00:19:14.060 can be used for training, which isn't 372 00:19:14.060 --> 00:19:16.720 you know, I like to say, everyone's always 373 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:18.840 interested in new detectors because 374 00:19:18.840 --> 00:19:21.029 they're very wow and whiz-bang. 375 00:19:21.029 --> 00:19:23.369 Making sure you have tools and ways to 376 00:19:23.369 --> 00:19:28.040 operate them properly. We also work on that as well. 377 00:19:28.040 --> 00:19:29.740 Yeah, well like you mentioned earlier 378 00:19:29.740 --> 00:19:32.300 the sampling is just as important as 379 00:19:32.300 --> 00:19:35.300 the detection capability and having 380 00:19:35.300 --> 00:19:37.800 these new pressure sensitive wands 381 00:19:37.800 --> 00:19:39.920 for training purposes really comes in 382 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:42.680 I think it sounds brilliant, actually, 383 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:45.419 to be able to understand how to capture 384 00:19:45.419 --> 00:19:48.289 those, capture those samples correctly. 385 00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:51.500 We talked a lot about explosives 386 00:19:51.500 --> 00:19:53.170 and you say, these really are basically 387 00:19:53.170 --> 00:19:57.500 chemical detectors. So I know our focus 388 00:19:57.500 --> 00:20:01.040 has been on explosives. Can they detect other stuff as well? 389 00:20:01.040 --> 00:20:05.260 It's a chemical detector, they definitely can 390 00:20:05.260 --> 00:20:09.300 detect drugs as well, chemical warfare 391 00:20:09.300 --> 00:20:11.290 agents it turns out, there's a lot of 392 00:20:11.290 --> 00:20:14.460 historical development behind that. 393 00:20:14.460 --> 00:20:18.220 A wide range of chemicals, especially 394 00:20:18.220 --> 00:20:22.000 in the environment that sort 395 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:24.370 of field of looking at how to detect 396 00:20:24.370 --> 00:20:26.590 chemicals in the environment. We work 397 00:20:26.590 --> 00:20:29.170 with a lot of partners too and they're 398 00:20:29.170 --> 00:20:32.710 from all different fields of interest 399 00:20:32.710 --> 00:20:35.900 from like I said environmental chemistry 400 00:20:35.900 --> 00:20:38.040 to you know kind of the traditional 401 00:20:38.040 --> 00:20:43.040 explosives field. And you know, people 402 00:20:43.080 --> 00:20:46.000 that work on standards and how to test 403 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:49.630 equipment. So it takes a takes a village. 404 00:20:49.630 --> 00:20:51.780 You know, actually takes a big field 405 00:20:51.780 --> 00:20:55.630 to develop these types of systems. 406 00:20:55.630 --> 00:20:57.760 It sounds, it sounds really exciting actually. 407 00:20:57.760 --> 00:21:00.580 How did you get into this line of work? 408 00:21:00.580 --> 00:21:05.580 I'm a PhD chemist by training, and when I joined 409 00:21:05.620 --> 00:21:09.520 Department Homeland Security Science & Technology Directorate 410 00:21:09.520 --> 00:21:14.520 years ago they had this program and it matched my skill-set 411 00:21:15.040 --> 00:21:17.380 really well to be able to work with 412 00:21:17.380 --> 00:21:20.440 other chemists, and as I said, there are 413 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:23.120 more than just chemists at work on these 414 00:21:23.120 --> 00:21:27.130 kinds of equipment. But the history of 415 00:21:27.130 --> 00:21:29.800 explosive trace detectors is more in the 416 00:21:29.800 --> 00:21:32.590 analytical chemistry side, and since I'm 417 00:21:32.590 --> 00:21:35.740 a chemist it was a good match and it's 418 00:21:35.740 --> 00:21:38.860 you know, a lot of interesting pieces to 419 00:21:38.860 --> 00:21:42.100 it the materials the even the algorithm 420 00:21:42.100 --> 00:21:45.370 development, you know, really you have to 421 00:21:45.370 --> 00:21:48.000 bring it all together. As a program manager, 422 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:50.730 I like that aspect, as well. 423 00:21:50.730 --> 00:21:54.370 Sounds like a very unique way 424 00:21:54.370 --> 00:21:57.130 and rewarding way to apply your skills 425 00:21:57.130 --> 00:22:01.170 into a very practical and useful mission. 426 00:22:01.170 --> 00:22:03.940 So thank you for your efforts in that. 427 00:22:03.940 --> 00:22:07.840 So, we're getting tight on time. 428 00:22:07.840 --> 00:22:09.800 So if there are any more questions from 429 00:22:09.800 --> 00:22:12.820 the field. please feel free to submit them. 430 00:22:12.820 --> 00:22:16.680 We have, this will be posted on our 431 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:20.320 Facebook page so that you can view it again later on. 432 00:22:20.320 --> 00:22:23.120 If you didn't have time to catch all the answers, 433 00:22:23.120 --> 00:22:25.120 you can submit additional questions, 434 00:22:25.120 --> 00:22:28.380 we will get back to you on those even after this is over. 435 00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:31.950 So feel free to be able to submit your questions. 436 00:22:31.950 --> 00:22:34.690 As we get ready to wrap this up today, 437 00:22:34.690 --> 00:22:36.700 is there anything that you'd like to remind 438 00:22:36.700 --> 00:22:40.120 folks about your program, maybe you know, 439 00:22:40.120 --> 00:22:41.830 if there's one thing people should know 440 00:22:41.830 --> 00:22:43.920 about trace detection, what is that one thing 441 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:45.740 you want them to go home with today? 442 00:22:45.740 --> 00:22:49.180 [Long Pause] 443 00:22:49.180 --> 00:22:50.240 That's a good question. 444 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:55.240 To keep in mind that, you know, we're at 445 00:22:56.370 --> 00:23:00.030 DHS S&T, we're always trying to find 446 00:23:00.030 --> 00:23:04.780 efficient and cost-effective ways to 447 00:23:04.780 --> 00:23:08.040 screen, you know, at airports or ports of entry, 448 00:23:08.040 --> 00:23:11.140 people at large crowd events, whatever 449 00:23:11.140 --> 00:23:13.800 it is and make sure everybody is 450 00:23:13.800 --> 00:23:17.200 you know, kept safe and the venue is secure. 451 00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:20.080 Excellent. Well thank you so much Dr. Parker, 452 00:23:20.080 --> 00:23:22.120 really appreciate you taking the time 453 00:23:22.120 --> 00:23:23.560 to be with us today. 454 00:23:23.560 --> 00:23:25.090 And thank you all for joining us. 455 00:23:25.090 --> 00:23:29.400 Please keep tracking us, watch us on 456 00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:34.400 Facebook and on Twitter at DHS SciTech, S-C-I-T-E-C-H. 457 00:23:36.080 --> 00:23:40.440 And we will see you next time. Thanks for joining us.