WEBVTT 00:00:01.375 --> 00:00:07.687 [VINCE PRENTICE] All right, folks, we're going to move in now, to our second part of the morning. 00:00:08.187 --> 00:00:10.500 So now we're going to go into 00:00:10.500 --> 00:00:15.437 “Beyond Disability Design: The Three Dimensions of Accessibility” 00:00:15.437 --> 00:00:18.687 by Dr. Sherman Gillums, Jr. 00:00:19.250 --> 00:00:22.875 I want to make sure I give everybody their due when it comes to their titles, 00:00:22.875 --> 00:00:25.687 because I kind of blundered there a little bit earlier this morning. 00:00:25.687 --> 00:00:28.750 So I want to make sure that we don't do that any more. 00:00:28.937 --> 00:00:32.812 How are you doing this? Morning, Dr.. Dr. Gillums. 00:00:32.812 --> 00:00:34.812 [DR. SHERMAN GILLUMS, JR.] I'm doing great. How do I sound? 00:00:34.812 --> 00:00:36.312 [VINCE] You actually sound perfect. 00:00:36.312 --> 00:00:38.187 We can definitely hear you, I hear you. 00:00:38.187 --> 00:00:41.187 Let's make sure everybody else can hear you first, for I speak too fast. 00:00:41.500 --> 00:00:44.000 If you can hear our presenter, please put a one of your thumbs. 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:45.625 Up or a one or whatever. 00:00:45.625 --> 00:00:47.937 Yeah, looks like we got a bunch of wants here, so that's great. 00:00:47.937 --> 00:00:49.000 That we do. 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:49.687 All right. So. 00:00:49.687 --> 00:00:52.750 Well again it's my pleasure to have you here today for our day two. 00:00:52.813 --> 00:00:54.750 We look forward to hearing your presentation. 00:00:54.750 --> 00:00:58.375 So at this moment we will let you take it away, Dr. Gillums, okay. 00:00:58.375 --> 00:01:01.125 [DR. SHERMAN GILLUMS, JR.] And I'm going to share my screen here as soon as I can find it. 00:01:02.125 --> 00:01:07.813 And if I turn my camera back on. 00:01:15.563 --> 00:01:19.063 Get it underneath a little tab here to get the. 00:01:19.938 --> 00:01:21.750 We're going to work. Can you see the screen this way. 00:01:21.750 --> 00:01:24.375 Does it does it show up well for everybody. 00:01:24.375 --> 00:01:26.125 It does okay. 00:01:26.125 --> 00:01:27.750 Yeah I can't make it full screen. 00:01:27.750 --> 00:01:30.188 Oh well there we go. I can do it. Now. 00:01:30.188 --> 00:01:31.375 Let's try and get the full screen. 00:01:31.375 --> 00:01:34.688 But, not content keeps coming up and it's stopping me, so I'll just roll with it. 00:01:35.188 --> 00:01:37.125 Yep. So, Hello, everybody. 00:01:37.125 --> 00:01:38.625 thank you for being here. 00:01:38.625 --> 00:01:42.375 Thank you for your interest in what's a pretty important topic. 00:01:43.375 --> 00:01:46.501 I suppose the best practice is to start with a self description. 00:01:46.938 --> 00:01:50.126 I had to turn my camera off to make sure that you focus on the images. 00:01:50.126 --> 00:01:54.813 But I would describe myself as a black male, medium brown skin tone. 00:01:55.188 --> 00:01:59.438 Right now I have brown, round, frame glasses. 00:02:00.063 --> 00:02:03.063 but most importantly, to this discussion, 00:02:03.313 --> 00:02:06.376 I am the person that if you could see the screen, I am the person 00:02:06.376 --> 00:02:10.688 with the FEMA jacket sitting in a wheelchair at that disaster, 00:02:10.688 --> 00:02:13.688 which was in, Selma, Alabama, early last year. 00:02:14.438 --> 00:02:17.438 I'm going to talk today about the dimensions of accessibility. 00:02:17.813 --> 00:02:22.626 I'll say at the outset that my views as a person in a wheelchair 00:02:22.688 --> 00:02:26.313 since 2004, when I got out of the Marine Corps due to injury, 00:02:26.938 --> 00:02:29.438 really narrow my understanding of accessibility. 00:02:29.438 --> 00:02:32.438 Before I came to FEMA, a couple of years ago, 00:02:32.626 --> 00:02:35.563 I'd seen many presentations on accessibility 00:02:35.563 --> 00:02:39.126 no two presentations were alike, and many were highly contextualized, 00:02:39.626 --> 00:02:44.439 around the circumstances, that were brought to bear in the presentation. 00:02:44.439 --> 00:02:48.689 But over time, I did note a few common themes that I'd like to talk about 00:02:49.064 --> 00:02:51.189 with respect to how we look at accessibility 00:02:51.189 --> 00:02:54.751 and the various dimensions that I hope we take away from this presentation. 00:03:01.689 --> 00:03:04.939 We go, so I joined FEMA in August of 2022, 00:03:05.501 --> 00:03:09.689 and as a person with the disability who was now the incoming, 00:03:10.189 --> 00:03:13.751 director of the Office of Disability Integration, who was delegated 00:03:13.751 --> 00:03:16.814 the responsibilities of a disability coordinator, 00:03:17.376 --> 00:03:21.564 I do think that my experience helped, but it was only part of the story. 00:03:21.564 --> 00:03:22.689 And I think oftentimes 00:03:22.689 --> 00:03:26.501 when we talk about accessibility, we are only seeing a part of the story. 00:03:26.501 --> 00:03:30.814 And a lot of it has to do with the fact that in my role, there is no handbook. 00:03:31.189 --> 00:03:35.627 All we have our experiences and engagements with stakeholders 00:03:35.627 --> 00:03:37.002 to better understand 00:03:37.002 --> 00:03:40.814 what accessibility means within the context of disaster management. 00:03:40.877 --> 00:03:43.564 Emergency management and disaster response. 00:03:43.564 --> 00:03:46.189 But for this presentation, there is a broader context. 00:03:46.189 --> 00:03:48.814 So I'll start with what it means to me and my role. 00:03:48.814 --> 00:03:52.752 But I brought it out to give you a broader understanding of how the lessons 00:03:53.127 --> 00:03:56.189 that I learned during steady state or before there were disasters 00:03:56.189 --> 00:03:59.314 were probably more important than what I saw during disasters. 00:03:59.314 --> 00:04:00.627 With respect to accessibility. 00:04:10.189 --> 00:04:11.502 Now, prior to my injury, 00:04:11.502 --> 00:04:14.877 in 2002, this symbol would have been encompassed 00:04:15.564 --> 00:04:17.877 the full expanse of my understanding 00:04:17.877 --> 00:04:20.940 of what it meant to be, disabled. 00:04:20.940 --> 00:04:23.190 in some cases, you had the term handicapped. 00:04:23.190 --> 00:04:26.877 Even still, today, rarely do I hear people to find it 00:04:26.877 --> 00:04:30.002 by, accessibility as a symbol of accessibility. 00:04:30.002 --> 00:04:32.565 But this is, in fact, what it is. 00:04:32.565 --> 00:04:35.565 By most accounts, though, this symbol triggers the idea 00:04:35.752 --> 00:04:39.940 that, accessibility is within this narrow framing of mobility. 00:04:40.627 --> 00:04:42.502 And I think it does a disservice by limiting 00:04:42.502 --> 00:04:44.127 how we should broadly view accessibility. 00:04:44.127 --> 00:04:46.627 So I put this up there to begin this discussion 00:04:46.627 --> 00:04:50.252 from a position of humility, because I had to learn this the hard way 00:04:50.440 --> 00:04:53.252 that even I, as a person with a disability, 00:04:53.252 --> 00:04:56.440 did not fully understand what it meant to have, 00:04:56.440 --> 00:05:00.315 an accessible environment until I began to see it through the lens 00:05:00.315 --> 00:05:02.440 of other experiences that were not like mine. 00:05:06.377 --> 00:05:07.065 In the way I try 00:05:07.065 --> 00:05:10.752 to have this conversation in a, in a way that's helpful and accessible 00:05:11.127 --> 00:05:14.815 to people who aren't disabled is just by using the airport. 00:05:14.815 --> 00:05:16.753 In fact, Reagan Airport, 00:05:16.753 --> 00:05:20.253 I talk about the fact that if you've got a suitcase, 00:05:20.253 --> 00:05:22.628 you probably appreciate the fact that there are curb cuts, 00:05:22.628 --> 00:05:26.065 especially if you're in a rush and you've got heavy luggage to bring with you. 00:05:26.503 --> 00:05:28.378 You take for granted that when you walk through the doors, 00:05:28.378 --> 00:05:31.378 that doors are going to open up and you walk through them, 00:05:31.690 --> 00:05:32.753 if you're running behind, 00:05:32.753 --> 00:05:35.753 you see those moving sidewalks, you're going to hop on that moving sidewalk, 00:05:36.065 --> 00:05:39.753 and it's going to help you get to your gate faster on the way. 00:05:39.753 --> 00:05:43.315 You might need to plug in, to, charge your phone. 00:05:43.753 --> 00:05:46.065 You might need to use voice activation to, 00:05:47.503 --> 00:05:48.878 dial a number. 00:05:48.878 --> 00:05:51.378 If you look up at the restrooms, you're going to see restrooms 00:05:51.378 --> 00:05:54.815 that are designated for, for certain populations. 00:05:54.815 --> 00:05:56.440 You may have an audio book. 00:05:56.440 --> 00:05:57.315 If you're at the ticket 00:05:57.315 --> 00:06:00.503 counter, it's a lowered counter with different buttons on it. 00:06:01.190 --> 00:06:02.628 We can take accessibility. 00:06:02.628 --> 00:06:06.941 So for granted that we almost don't see it in an environment like an airport. 00:06:07.441 --> 00:06:10.066 But before these accessibility, 00:06:10.066 --> 00:06:13.441 improvements were in airports, 00:06:14.003 --> 00:06:18.253 they began in homes, they began in research or clinical areas 00:06:18.566 --> 00:06:22.816 where our society was testing ways for people with certain functional losses 00:06:23.191 --> 00:06:27.003 or impairments or deficits to find their way to functionality 00:06:27.003 --> 00:06:31.066 through access to technology and all the things that today we take for granted. 00:06:31.128 --> 00:06:35.066 So if you've got an audio book that was a screen reader before it became 00:06:35.066 --> 00:06:38.066 an audio book where you can listen to books instead of having to read them. 00:06:38.378 --> 00:06:39.691 All right. And so I tell 00:06:41.128 --> 00:06:43.191 people in these types of audiences, 00:06:43.191 --> 00:06:46.753 you have a lot to think people with disabilities for when you take these 00:06:46.753 --> 00:06:48.441 for granted that these things are going to be there 00:06:48.441 --> 00:06:51.441 and help you move through, an airport faster. 00:06:52.253 --> 00:06:55.566 But that's only part of the problem for my role, because what I do 00:06:56.253 --> 00:06:59.691 rarely involves environments where we can take those things for granted. 00:06:59.691 --> 00:07:03.191 In fact, when a disaster happens and I go to these places, 00:07:03.566 --> 00:07:08.629 I look for 14 specific areas of inequality or inequity. 00:07:09.004 --> 00:07:12.316 They're all not necessarily accessibility issues, but most of them are. 00:07:12.316 --> 00:07:15.816 And we're talking about things like how we access alerts and warnings. 00:07:16.129 --> 00:07:17.754 how do we evacuate? 00:07:17.754 --> 00:07:20.316 do we have accessible transportation? 00:07:20.316 --> 00:07:23.004 Is sheltering accessible is the way that 00:07:23.004 --> 00:07:26.066 these survivors communicate, to responders 00:07:26.066 --> 00:07:29.879 or to people who are helping them, what their needs are accessible. 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:33.754 So we're having to constantly deal with ways that in these austere environment, 00:07:34.504 --> 00:07:35.691 we deal with two factors. 00:07:35.691 --> 00:07:37.691 One is we have to find ways 00:07:37.691 --> 00:07:41.254 to reconnect people with access and functional capabilities. 00:07:41.504 --> 00:07:43.316 But you also have to deal with the pre-disaster 00:07:43.316 --> 00:07:46.816 accessibility or inaccessibility that predated the disaster. 00:07:46.816 --> 00:07:50.504 That often exacerbates, how hard it is to connect people 00:07:50.629 --> 00:07:53.317 to all the things that other survivors could take for granted. 00:07:53.317 --> 00:07:56.004 So that gives you just juxtaposition in my role 00:07:56.004 --> 00:07:57.754 when we're looking at an environment like an airport 00:07:57.754 --> 00:08:00.817 where accessibility can be take for granted, and then we get to 00:08:00.817 --> 00:08:04.442 the more austere situations where nothing can be taken for granted. 00:08:04.754 --> 00:08:06.567 That's sort of gives you the extremes within 00:08:06.567 --> 00:08:08.754 I have to operate in the role that I play in FEMA. 00:08:12.442 --> 00:08:15.317 I think it was earlier mentioned, by Rear Admiral Bartz, 00:08:15.317 --> 00:08:19.504 that the Executive order 14 035, 00:08:20.192 --> 00:08:22.817 gave us at least a starting point 00:08:22.817 --> 00:08:25.817 for a common language around how we talk about accessibility. 00:08:26.067 --> 00:08:27.192 There's a lot of words there. 00:08:27.192 --> 00:08:29.317 And what they mean is important. 00:08:29.317 --> 00:08:32.192 And oftentimes how to interpret is just as important. 00:08:32.192 --> 00:08:37.504 Equal access to employment participation activities, reduction of, or elimination 00:08:37.504 --> 00:08:42.255 of barriers, to create equitable conditions and having a commitment. And 00:08:42.255 --> 00:08:47.067 I saw the question earlier about whether it was a matter of will or resources. 00:08:47.317 --> 00:08:50.817 Having a commitment means constantly looking for ways to improve access 00:08:50.817 --> 00:08:53.817 so that everyone can operate independently. 00:08:53.817 --> 00:08:54.630 Right. 00:08:54.630 --> 00:08:57.755 As we marshal ourselves toward this idea of a universal design 00:08:57.942 --> 00:08:59.630 where everybody has access. 00:08:59.630 --> 00:09:00.817 Now, what does that mean exactly? 00:09:00.817 --> 00:09:03.817 And I'm going to I'm going to posit that it means certain things 00:09:03.942 --> 00:09:06.942 that maybe we hadn't thought about in this way. 00:09:07.067 --> 00:09:10.067 But I'll tell you what I think it means, and I'll give you examples 00:09:10.380 --> 00:09:12.130 within the work that I do. 00:09:12.130 --> 00:09:13.380 You mentioned some accessibility. 00:09:13.380 --> 00:09:16.942 Start with functional access, technical access, 00:09:17.192 --> 00:09:20.192 and then one that's very, much under regarded. 00:09:20.192 --> 00:09:23.005 But just as important is emotional access. 00:09:25.192 --> 00:09:27.692 Here's an example of functional inaccessibility. 00:09:27.692 --> 00:09:31.505 Here's a water station, a handwashing station 00:09:31.505 --> 00:09:36.505 where at this particular disaster, you had to have your foot operate 00:09:36.505 --> 00:09:39.505 in order to press the pedal to get the water to work. 00:09:39.505 --> 00:09:42.505 the problem in this case is if I was a person in a wheelchair 00:09:42.505 --> 00:09:46.318 independently using the restroom, or in this case, the porta potty, 00:09:46.693 --> 00:09:47.880 I wouldn't be able to come out 00:09:47.880 --> 00:09:51.505 without the help of somebody else and use this handwashing station. 00:09:52.005 --> 00:09:54.005 And the fact is, there are other solutions. 00:09:54.005 --> 00:09:58.443 There are other ways that we can ensure accessibility functionally in disasters. 00:09:58.443 --> 00:10:01.943 And so this gives you just a, in, some imagery around 00:10:01.943 --> 00:10:04.943 how we talk about functional inaccessibility during disasters. 00:10:06.068 --> 00:10:08.568 Next, there's technical inaccessibility. 00:10:08.568 --> 00:10:10.505 And I think this is where Rear Admiral 00:10:10.505 --> 00:10:14.755 Bartz really honed in on the idea of keeping the user in mind first 00:10:15.130 --> 00:10:19.130 through the development and in this case, East Palestine train crash. 00:10:19.130 --> 00:10:22.755 We saw a lot of functional or technical inaccessibility 00:10:23.193 --> 00:10:26.006 in the interface, in the websites that the counties 00:10:26.006 --> 00:10:29.318 ran to give people information about what they were to do. 00:10:29.381 --> 00:10:33.193 When that when that train crash happened, somebody with the screen reader would not 00:10:33.193 --> 00:10:36.506 have been able to use that interface because it wasn't developed 00:10:37.381 --> 00:10:40.568 technically with people who use screen readers in mind. 00:10:40.693 --> 00:10:41.006 All right. 00:10:41.006 --> 00:10:45.693 So this was an example of how technical inaccessibility became a barrier 00:10:45.693 --> 00:10:48.881 that we had to overcome to make sure that everybody got the information 00:10:48.881 --> 00:10:51.381 they needed to make the right decision for themselves. 00:10:52.443 --> 00:10:55.443 And then finally, emotional inaccessibility. 00:10:55.443 --> 00:10:57.943 Now that's me and a disaster. 00:10:57.943 --> 00:11:01.631 And while this is technically a functional access issue, 00:11:02.631 --> 00:11:05.193 imagine what it feels like to be the person 00:11:05.193 --> 00:11:08.756 who is a survivor in the shelter and you come upon the scene. 00:11:09.443 --> 00:11:13.193 What you're looking at are steps that go up to the first of all, 00:11:13.193 --> 00:11:15.568 the steps are probably hard for a lot of people to get up. 00:11:15.568 --> 00:11:18.006 People who are older or women who are pregnant. 00:11:18.006 --> 00:11:21.006 But then you see the universal symbol of access, a wheelchair, 00:11:21.194 --> 00:11:24.819 which is laughable to think that they see me in that environment, 00:11:25.131 --> 00:11:26.131 and there is an emotional 00:11:26.131 --> 00:11:29.694 toll that it takes on people when they encounter situations like this 00:11:30.006 --> 00:11:32.569 where obviously didn't consider their needs 00:11:32.569 --> 00:11:35.131 and they become invisibilized by these examples. 00:11:35.131 --> 00:11:38.944 So that's an example of how emotional inaccessibility became a factor 00:11:38.944 --> 00:11:41.756 in this particular disaster. And these are the things that I look for as well. 00:11:43.444 --> 00:11:46.631 And then finally I just want to leave with this, sort of axiom 00:11:46.631 --> 00:11:49.631 that I take everywhere with me when I talk about accessibility. 00:11:50.319 --> 00:11:53.006 Disability and inability are not the same. 00:11:53.006 --> 00:11:54.944 They should not be conflated. 00:11:54.944 --> 00:11:57.944 One is a human condition that we learn to overcome. 00:11:58.381 --> 00:12:01.381 The other is a circumstance we find ourselves caught within. 00:12:01.881 --> 00:12:04.381 When the environment doesn't see us. Right. 00:12:04.381 --> 00:12:08.381 So those are the differences, in my view, between disability and inability. 00:12:10.069 --> 00:12:11.569 And with that, I'll leave the, 00:12:11.569 --> 00:12:17.069 slide up there for a pause just so people can take down 00:12:17.069 --> 00:12:20.319 my email address if they desire to, and I'll be happy to answer 00:12:20.757 --> 00:12:23.757 any questions. 00:12:28.882 --> 00:12:31.132 Thank you very much, Dr. Gillums. 00:12:31.132 --> 00:12:33.194 That was a great presentation. 00:12:33.194 --> 00:12:34.882 Let's see if we have any questions. 00:12:34.882 --> 00:12:37.882 Folks, this is your opportunity now to ask any questions. 00:12:38.382 --> 00:12:41.132 some-- this looks like there's a few comments, 00:12:42.319 --> 00:12:44.694 that we have coming into the chat. 00:12:44.694 --> 00:12:49.069 The emotional inaccessibility, an excellent new term for me. 00:12:49.694 --> 00:12:51.694 Okay. 00:12:51.694 --> 00:12:52.007 Yeah. 00:12:52.007 --> 00:12:53.819 I don't think I've ever heard that term before. 00:12:53.819 --> 00:12:55.944 Emotional inaccessibility. 00:12:55.944 --> 00:12:57.507 That is a really, well, good one. 00:12:57.507 --> 00:13:01.194 [DR. SHERMAN GILLUMS, JR.] Well, and when you think about having people with disabilities come to your workplaces, 00:13:02.070 --> 00:13:04.320 they make those decisions right from the start. 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:05.757 If that front door doesn't work. 00:13:05.757 --> 00:13:08.195 I think my first day at FEMA, 00:13:08.195 --> 00:13:11.195 they had a few problems with the door and I said, okay, disability coordinator, 00:13:11.445 --> 00:13:15.382 or I need to go address that because people who come to this building for help, 00:13:15.695 --> 00:13:18.695 there is a sense of whether you feel like you're seeing 00:13:18.695 --> 00:13:20.132 right from the right from the start. 00:13:20.132 --> 00:13:23.882 So I think if we pay attention to how we come across in terms of, 00:13:24.132 --> 00:13:28.882 how we set the environmental conditions, you do address emotional accessibility 00:13:29.070 --> 00:13:30.195 by looking at those things 00:13:30.195 --> 00:13:33.507 and hearing from stakeholders work in those spaces to improve it. 00:13:34.195 --> 00:13:35.695 [VINCE] Absolutely, absolutely. 00:13:35.695 --> 00:13:38.882 Another thing, I had actually taken a note down in your presentation. 00:13:39.820 --> 00:13:42.257 You know, I love the comment when you said, 00:13:42.257 --> 00:13:47.132 it takes a will to make sure that everyone has access. 00:13:47.382 --> 00:13:47.757 Right? 00:13:47.757 --> 00:13:50.382 And I, I really believe in that wholeheartedly because I, 00:13:50.382 --> 00:13:53.945 you know, for me, as a technologist on the accessibility side, 00:13:54.195 --> 00:13:58.383 I'm always thinking about it from the standpoint of IT, making sure 00:13:58.383 --> 00:14:01.695 that all the applications and websites are fully accessible for folks. 00:14:01.883 --> 00:14:02.820 But you're absolutely right. 00:14:02.820 --> 00:14:06.008 It does take a will, you know, and I think another part of it is, 00:14:06.258 --> 00:14:11.133 is just consciously in the mind, making sure that we always think access 00:14:11.383 --> 00:14:16.508 to information or access to buildings and things is a human right. 00:14:16.508 --> 00:14:17.258 Right. Shouldn't 00:14:17.258 --> 00:14:20.258 just be anything else, it should be everybody should have access to it. 00:14:20.945 --> 00:14:23.258 [DR. SHERMAN GILLUMS, JR.] And when you do that, and again, 00:14:23.258 --> 00:14:26.570 I use the airport as an example because it's so easy to take for granted. 00:14:26.945 --> 00:14:30.383 But those places were built with people for people with disabilities in mind, 00:14:30.820 --> 00:14:33.758 to a point where everybody benefits. Right? 00:14:33.758 --> 00:14:36.320 And so that's a business case and it's beyond virtue. 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:39.383 There is a business case to ensuring universal access. 00:14:39.945 --> 00:14:40.758 [VINCE] Absolutely. 00:14:40.758 --> 00:14:44.570 There is somebody asked, can you repeat the incongruent 00:14:44.570 --> 00:14:47.633 disability versus inability statement? 00:14:49.196 --> 00:14:55.071 [DR. SHERMAN GILLUMS, JR.] Yeah. So I said that, disability is a condition that we overcome. 00:14:56.258 --> 00:14:59.258 Inability is a circumstance 00:14:59.321 --> 00:15:02.821 we find ourselves subjected to when the environment doesn't see us. 00:15:03.508 --> 00:15:06.321 And I'll just do a quick little vignette here. 00:15:06.321 --> 00:15:10.258 I talked recently about the importance of having responders 00:15:10.258 --> 00:15:14.696 in wheelchairs and people who are blind or deaf in disaster spaces. 00:15:14.696 --> 00:15:16.883 And one of the questions came up with, why would we do that? 00:15:16.883 --> 00:15:19.883 It's dangerous for them, you know, it makes it harder 00:15:19.883 --> 00:15:22.883 and it requires additional resources when you have to bring in interpreters. 00:15:23.383 --> 00:15:26.383 my answer was because survivors don't get to choose 00:15:26.508 --> 00:15:29.446 whether they're in those environments. 00:15:29.446 --> 00:15:31.133 We get to choose that, but they don't. 00:15:31.133 --> 00:15:34.633 And if you don't, if you see us, you're probably going to see them. 00:15:34.633 --> 00:15:39.071 So having people who are blind, deaf with service animals in wheelchairs 00:15:39.509 --> 00:15:42.509 needs to be a part of the response, because then it shows the public 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:47.759 that we see you enough to have people who represent your views in our in our ranks. 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:48.134 Right. 00:15:48.134 --> 00:15:51.884 And that's why I show that photo, because people often wonder, well, how do you do, 00:15:52.509 --> 00:15:53.884 you know, damage assessments? 00:15:53.884 --> 00:15:57.946 Well, I get out of my car and I roll myself down the street 00:15:57.946 --> 00:16:01.446 and I take pictures and I talk survivors just like anybody else. 00:16:01.446 --> 00:16:02.009 Right. 00:16:02.009 --> 00:16:06.134 And it's important because now they see FEMA as having an investment 00:16:06.134 --> 00:16:09.259 not just in people, but in understanding 00:16:09.321 --> 00:16:12.321 that you otherwise couldn't have without people who live that experience. 00:16:12.821 --> 00:16:15.134 [VINCE] Absolutely. That is awesome. 00:16:15.134 --> 00:16:15.384 All right. 00:16:15.384 --> 00:16:16.946 Let me see now of questions or look like 00:16:16.946 --> 00:16:19.946 because we start having a conversation, they're starting to come in a little bit. 00:16:20.196 --> 00:16:23.009 I don't want to take up more time than I'm supposed to either. 00:16:23.009 --> 00:16:23.384 All right. 00:16:23.384 --> 00:16:26.696 Can you explain the winner's technical issue again? 00:16:27.696 --> 00:16:32.884 So when you this came up recently when we were talking about building construction, 00:16:33.259 --> 00:16:37.572 when you build a building, and if you don't factor in things 00:16:37.572 --> 00:16:41.509 like emergency escapes for people with disabilities, you're ignoring 00:16:41.509 --> 00:16:45.197 all the technical requirements that will then have to be added later. 00:16:45.884 --> 00:16:47.572 and as an afterthought, it never works. 00:16:47.572 --> 00:16:48.634 It's never optimized. 00:16:48.634 --> 00:16:53.447 But if you build with the user in mind, as Rear Admiral, Bartz 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:56.322 built with them in mind, you build it into the requirements. 00:16:56.322 --> 00:16:59.634 And in the case I cited, the website wasn't built to, 00:17:00.322 --> 00:17:02.509 accommodate screen readers. 00:17:02.509 --> 00:17:03.697 So it wasn't 508 00:17:03.697 --> 00:17:05.134 compliant, it wasn't built. 00:17:05.134 --> 00:17:08.072 So if you try to use a screen reader, you probably have to use a patch 00:17:08.072 --> 00:17:11.697 or something to fix the text, but it wasn't built with the user in mind. 00:17:11.697 --> 00:17:14.697 And so that was an example of technical inaccessibility. 00:17:15.259 --> 00:17:17.384 [VINCE] Okay. Excellent, excellent. 00:17:17.384 --> 00:17:18.509 Yeah. We run into that problem. 00:17:18.509 --> 00:17:22.760 Unfortunately we do run into that a lot because again, the old, 00:17:22.822 --> 00:17:24.947 you know, adage is, you know, you always want to make sure 00:17:24.947 --> 00:17:27.947 everything is built in the beginning so you don't have to do anything wrong. 00:17:28.197 --> 00:17:30.010 You know, I used to always say in my trainings 00:17:30.010 --> 00:17:33.635 years ago, it's just like when you're building a house, right? 00:17:33.760 --> 00:17:35.510 So when we talk about accessibility 00:17:35.510 --> 00:17:39.197 or building out a website or building on a web based application, 00:17:39.322 --> 00:17:42.572 we always want ensure that is built with accessibility in mind. 00:17:42.822 --> 00:17:43.447 We always want 00:17:43.447 --> 00:17:47.072 to make sure the security is in line and all functionalities in line, 00:17:47.135 --> 00:17:49.135 and have everything in the beginning stages. 00:17:49.135 --> 00:17:52.760 As the we talk about the SDLC, the software development lifecycle 00:17:53.010 --> 00:17:55.010 in the initiation stages. 00:17:55.010 --> 00:17:57.760 And I think these again, these conversations are very important 00:17:57.760 --> 00:17:58.822 for folks to make sure 00:17:58.822 --> 00:18:00.572 that it's always in the forefront of their mind 00:18:00.572 --> 00:18:03.072 to think about, especially from an accessibility standpoint, 00:18:03.072 --> 00:18:07.072 because you're right, retrofitting really never, ever works, right? 00:18:07.322 --> 00:18:08.447 It really does it. 00:18:08.447 --> 00:18:10.260 All right. Let's see. We have another one here. 00:18:10.260 --> 00:18:13.260 Somebody said okay, it's eye opener. 00:18:13.322 --> 00:18:16.073 okay. It says, can Dr. Gillums repeat? 00:18:16.073 --> 00:18:20.260 Oh, I think we made this distinction between disability and inability. 00:18:20.760 --> 00:18:22.635 I think you said we talked about that one. Yeah. 00:18:22.635 --> 00:18:23.010 Okay. 00:18:23.010 --> 00:18:26.448 So number two disability tags and let them I got trying to make sure, 00:18:27.448 --> 00:18:30.260 a couple people made a comment that FEMA has always been very awesome 00:18:30.260 --> 00:18:34.385 and provided excellent interpreters of FEMA and the disability integration. 00:18:34.635 --> 00:18:36.760 Does a shout out to you guys. There. 00:18:36.760 --> 00:18:38.448 Well, that's true for this fact. 00:18:38.448 --> 00:18:40.823 That was very well. 00:18:40.823 --> 00:18:42.385 [DR. SHERMAN GILLUMS, JR.] I see one I wouldn't mind answering about. 00:18:42.385 --> 00:18:42.510 [VINCE] Yeah. 00:18:42.510 --> 00:18:43.885 [DR. SHERMAN GILLUMS, JR.] Talking about my experiences 00:18:43.885 --> 00:18:46.885 entering the civilian workforce as someone in a wheelchair. 00:18:47.010 --> 00:18:51.010 So that was very tough because I had to find a new identity, not just as a veteran 00:18:51.010 --> 00:18:55.823 who was no longer in uniform, but also as a person who was now disabled. 00:18:55.823 --> 00:18:59.698 And I really didn't have a sense of how I view people with disabilities. 00:18:59.698 --> 00:19:02.448 I didn't-- I don't remember knowing anybody in a wheelchair. 00:19:02.448 --> 00:19:05.948 So I was navigating new waters on both fronts. 00:19:06.386 --> 00:19:09.386 but the way I gave purpose to the changes in my life 00:19:09.386 --> 00:19:12.573 is I began to get involved in advocacy early on. 00:19:12.573 --> 00:19:17.136 I was on Capitol Hill pushing for, and you can read about that stuff 00:19:17.136 --> 00:19:20.886 in my bio, but I spent a lot of time about 18 years, 00:19:20.886 --> 00:19:24.198 advocating for veterans, for people with disabilities and air travel, 00:19:24.198 --> 00:19:27.823 for caregivers, people with mental illnesses, things like that. 00:19:27.823 --> 00:19:30.948 So it just really it gave purpose to 00:19:30.948 --> 00:19:34.448 what happened to me and made me a credible witness. 00:19:34.761 --> 00:19:35.136 Right? 00:19:35.136 --> 00:19:39.323 Whenever I had to speak to people or decision makers about things 00:19:39.323 --> 00:19:40.136 that needed to change. 00:19:40.136 --> 00:19:43.698 So I was able to really embrace that identity, 00:19:44.261 --> 00:19:46.323 because I turned it into my purpose. 00:19:46.323 --> 00:19:49.073 So it and I think a lot of people who are able to do that 00:19:49.073 --> 00:19:52.761 become invaluable to society, because now they they give a voice 00:19:52.761 --> 00:19:55.323 to a lot of people who would otherwise not have those opportunities. 00:19:55.323 --> 00:19:58.449 But coming into the civilian workforce, in the federal government, 00:19:58.449 --> 00:20:02.261 it was tough because, you know, now we're talking about environments 00:20:02.261 --> 00:20:06.574 that that have these standards and the ADA and all these things. 00:20:07.199 --> 00:20:11.324 But the gap between, you know, having the standards and understanding what it means 00:20:11.324 --> 00:20:15.074 or what its purpose is and meeting the minimum standard isn't the point. 00:20:15.574 --> 00:20:18.511 That's where a lot of the work needed to be done, in my view. 00:20:18.511 --> 00:20:22.511 So, you know, having an accessible door that that kind of matters. 00:20:22.511 --> 00:20:26.949 But policies that don't address cultural issues, 00:20:26.949 --> 00:20:31.199 make that accessible door irrelevant because you don't want to be there. 00:20:31.199 --> 00:20:33.011 You don't want to enter that building in the first place. 00:20:33.011 --> 00:20:35.449 You got to deal with policy. So. So it's all connected. 00:20:35.449 --> 00:20:36.636 There's a there's a, 00:20:36.636 --> 00:20:39.886 you know, a continuum of accessibility that has to be addressed. 00:20:40.699 --> 00:20:42.386 So that's actually a good segway. 00:20:42.386 --> 00:20:43.074 There's another question. 00:20:43.074 --> 00:20:46.824 Can what can you do if you go into a building that claims to be ADA, 00:20:46.886 --> 00:20:51.012 but the bathroom doors are so heavy and have no push button to assist a person. 00:20:51.137 --> 00:20:54.324 So kind of, what do you do in that situation where you go someplace 00:20:54.324 --> 00:20:57.324 that says it's ADA compliant, but it's not? 00:20:57.449 --> 00:21:00.199 What what can we do to to rectify that issue? 00:21:00.199 --> 00:21:02.137 I guess what they're really asking. 00:21:02.137 --> 00:21:06.324 I go in and assume at least good intent, right? 00:21:06.387 --> 00:21:09.012 So I don't look at it and say, oh, this is bad. 00:21:09.012 --> 00:21:10.887 There's never going to be a perfect environment. 00:21:10.887 --> 00:21:14.762 But I found the individual in the in the case of the building I'm in now. 00:21:15.324 --> 00:21:16.887 And we sat down, I had a discussion. 00:21:16.887 --> 00:21:19.887 It actually began with the evacuation because I wanted to know 00:21:20.324 --> 00:21:23.324 who knows how to use these evacuee chairs in the event of a drill. 00:21:23.574 --> 00:21:24.449 Well, nobody knows. 00:21:24.449 --> 00:21:26.449 The fire departments know, but nobody knows that. 00:21:26.449 --> 00:21:29.449 So we that began a year long conversation 00:21:29.512 --> 00:21:33.512 that resulted in accessibility improvements to the, 00:21:33.512 --> 00:21:38.074 the National Response Coordination Center, some of the kitchen areas. 00:21:38.074 --> 00:21:41.199 I mean, we slowly but surely began to inculcate 00:21:41.262 --> 00:21:45.137 accessibility from that emotional standpoint into the experience. 00:21:45.137 --> 00:21:47.762 People have not just a function in bathroom doors. 00:21:47.762 --> 00:21:50.762 It becomes an easier discussion when you get people to understand 00:21:50.825 --> 00:21:52.200 that I want to be here. 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:55.887 If the environment sees me and this door, it may be simply attaching, 00:21:56.262 --> 00:21:58.012 you know, an automatic attachment. 00:21:58.012 --> 00:22:01.075 It doesn't cost that much, but people have to call it out. 00:22:01.075 --> 00:22:04.887 And I think if you don't feel empowered to call it out, that's the first problem. 00:22:04.887 --> 00:22:08.700 So having people feel empowered to point out the door being a problem 00:22:09.012 --> 00:22:09.950 is where it starts. 00:22:11.012 --> 00:22:12.137 It. Now, 00:22:12.137 --> 00:22:15.512 in regards to that lighting, again, we don't like to call it complaints, 00:22:15.825 --> 00:22:19.137 but recommendations as I like to always say what? 00:22:19.325 --> 00:22:20.075 What actions? 00:22:20.075 --> 00:22:23.075 Like what steps should a person take and who should they contact 00:22:23.387 --> 00:22:27.137 if they do encounter those type of situations where there's the inability 00:22:27.137 --> 00:22:30.387 to be able to access a bathroom because of bad design, 00:22:30.700 --> 00:22:34.325 is there somebody that you would tell folks that they should reach out to? 00:22:35.575 --> 00:22:37.388 Lucky for FEMA, they have me 00:22:37.388 --> 00:22:41.325 because if they reach out to me, I will begin the conversation. 00:22:41.325 --> 00:22:43.763 And I have began that conversation. Okay. 00:22:43.763 --> 00:22:45.075 but I'm just one person. 00:22:45.075 --> 00:22:48.200 We have a few other people who are also people who use 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:49.825 wheelchairs, people who are deaf. 00:22:49.825 --> 00:22:53.700 And we, you know, we have a an employee resource group 00:22:53.700 --> 00:22:56.700 that does get together to meet to talk about these things, but 00:22:56.825 --> 00:22:59.700 creating the conditions for these conversations to happen 00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:03.388 without anybody getting defensive about it or somebody having to be, 00:23:03.575 --> 00:23:06.575 you know, indicted for missing something, it's it's tough. 00:23:06.950 --> 00:23:09.888 you know, we rent the building we're in, so we can't just knock down walls 00:23:09.888 --> 00:23:11.075 and do all these things. 00:23:11.075 --> 00:23:15.575 But a lot of it is taking that journey together and, and giving people grace 00:23:15.575 --> 00:23:16.513 who didn't get it right. 00:23:16.513 --> 00:23:18.700 But help them find the, you know, 00:23:18.700 --> 00:23:21.825 find a solution that that would put them on the right side of accessibility. 00:23:22.513 --> 00:23:23.700 Okay. Excellent. 00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:27.826 It looks like there's a couple more, is a large interactive touchscreen 00:23:27.826 --> 00:23:31.951 that uses the QR code for people in wheelchairs, accessible. 00:23:33.513 --> 00:23:34.888 You know, I get these questions all the time 00:23:34.888 --> 00:23:37.888 because people imagine that it is. 00:23:37.951 --> 00:23:42.013 But I think you have to ask people what they're like, let them test it out there. 00:23:42.138 --> 00:23:46.326 I, I run into so many situations where people assume inaccessibility, 00:23:46.326 --> 00:23:50.388 but because they didn't talk to somebody or maybe their grandma, you know, 00:23:50.701 --> 00:23:53.701 they died 20 years ago when they did this for her. 00:23:53.826 --> 00:23:55.138 Everybody's not the same. 00:23:55.138 --> 00:23:56.513 And you're not going to be able to satisfy. 00:23:56.513 --> 00:24:00.201 There's no one prototypical disabled identity, right. 00:24:00.326 --> 00:24:03.388 But get a group together, get sort of a consensus. 00:24:03.826 --> 00:24:07.763 you know, allow people to tell you what they need because they'll be very clear 00:24:07.763 --> 00:24:09.888 about what they need if you give them the chance. 00:24:09.888 --> 00:24:11.826 When you give me a computer with a touchscreen, 00:24:11.826 --> 00:24:14.826 there's a lot of other features that I also have to navigate. 00:24:14.826 --> 00:24:16.951 there may be difficult. How is it charged up? 00:24:16.951 --> 00:24:18.138 You know, how do I plug it in? 00:24:18.138 --> 00:24:21.014 You know, how do I dock it if there's a docking station? 00:24:21.014 --> 00:24:23.639 So it's really going to be the entire experience 00:24:23.639 --> 00:24:26.326 that you're trying to address, not just a one function. 00:24:26.326 --> 00:24:26.826 Again, it's 00:24:27.826 --> 00:24:30.576 technical, functional and emotional. 00:24:30.576 --> 00:24:33.451 So if you can keep those three in mind as a triad, 00:24:33.451 --> 00:24:36.076 then you're looking at more than just a function of that touchscreen. 00:24:36.076 --> 00:24:38.576 Now you're looking at how does it make me feel when I approach it? 00:24:38.576 --> 00:24:40.889 Is it the right angle? Is it high enough? All those things? 00:24:40.889 --> 00:24:42.701 It sounds like a lot, but it's really not. 00:24:42.701 --> 00:24:44.264 And if you do it right, 00:24:44.264 --> 00:24:48.076 it becomes so invisible that even people who are not disabled benefit from it. 00:24:48.326 --> 00:24:50.389 Absolutely, absolutely. 00:24:50.389 --> 00:24:52.264 So a couple of questions came in. 00:24:52.264 --> 00:24:55.076 have you ever used the TSA cares program 00:24:55.076 --> 00:24:58.076 for travel accessibility assistance? 00:24:58.639 --> 00:25:02.701 You know, I have, and it was okay, depending on the airport, 00:25:02.701 --> 00:25:05.451 not every airport has it. So that's the first problem. 00:25:05.451 --> 00:25:09.264 But because I was also I fell under the Wounded Warrior program. 00:25:09.264 --> 00:25:13.077 So I would also have that particular program that was a little bit better 00:25:13.077 --> 00:25:16.077 because they actually meet you at the at the entrance. 00:25:16.577 --> 00:25:19.077 TSA cares. You got to kind of find them. 00:25:19.077 --> 00:25:22.014 And it does help when you're in airports do tend to, 00:25:22.014 --> 00:25:25.014 logjam people with disabilities in line. 00:25:25.014 --> 00:25:26.264 It becomes invaluable. 00:25:26.264 --> 00:25:28.264 but a lot of airports don't have it. 00:25:28.264 --> 00:25:31.327 So if it's at Reagan but it's not at O'Hare, 00:25:31.889 --> 00:25:34.639 you know, then it's kind of okay, that's half the journey. 00:25:34.639 --> 00:25:37.139 Okay. Somebody else asked another question. 00:25:37.139 --> 00:25:38.264 Because I think this touched upon 00:25:38.264 --> 00:25:43.014 when you had mentioned about mental, disabilities, how do you handle people 00:25:43.014 --> 00:25:46.014 with mental issues and those that are not seen? 00:25:46.014 --> 00:25:48.014 I think that's a really good question, especially nowadays. 00:25:49.264 --> 00:25:51.827 One you don't handle anybody. 00:25:51.827 --> 00:25:53.827 Right. And I know and that's just mister semantics. 00:25:53.827 --> 00:25:54.952 I know what you mean. Right. 00:25:54.952 --> 00:25:58.327 But a lot of people think it's it's almost an encounter, like how do we do it? 00:25:59.014 --> 00:26:01.702 There are people if you have five of you 00:26:01.702 --> 00:26:04.827 in this room right now, one of you has a mental illness. 00:26:04.827 --> 00:26:08.265 And when we say mental illness, we're talking about depression, anxiety. 00:26:08.265 --> 00:26:11.577 And in that case, I live with both as well as post-traumatic 00:26:11.577 --> 00:26:14.577 stress disorder, and a lot of other things, 00:26:14.577 --> 00:26:17.577 panic disorders, these things that came out of Covid, 00:26:18.890 --> 00:26:21.640 1 in 20 have a serious mental illness. 00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:24.827 And people are highly functional when they have these, 00:26:24.827 --> 00:26:27.827 when they get the help, when they have the medications, the support. 00:26:28.077 --> 00:26:29.577 So there's really not handling. 00:26:29.577 --> 00:26:32.140 It's just being aware of how we all 00:26:33.140 --> 00:26:34.702 intersect with, you know, 00:26:34.702 --> 00:26:37.702 sometimes we want to counter somebody who hasn't gotten care 00:26:37.702 --> 00:26:41.765 or who's neglected their care or who has gotten a situation which really bad. 00:26:42.265 --> 00:26:43.765 yeah. We will have those. 00:26:43.765 --> 00:26:46.640 I see people who are unhoused outside of, 00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:50.265 you know, restaurants that are given, you know, so I see that. 00:26:50.702 --> 00:26:53.577 But most of us, most of us are walking around among people 00:26:53.577 --> 00:26:57.078 who are dealing with something about which we have no knowledge 00:26:57.078 --> 00:27:00.390 or understanding, and we simply need to be open to the idea 00:27:00.828 --> 00:27:04.953 that sometimes when you have a bad day at work, that depression's kicking in. 00:27:05.515 --> 00:27:06.453 Give people grace. 00:27:06.453 --> 00:27:10.015 I have employees who admit to bipolar or, bipolar disorder. 00:27:11.765 --> 00:27:14.203 I'm very, you know, but because I understand it, 00:27:14.203 --> 00:27:19.203 I actually find ways to maximize, its use bipolar disorder. 00:27:19.203 --> 00:27:22.265 Makes you very, imaginative. 00:27:22.265 --> 00:27:25.015 And although things are ending extreme and it's also helps us. 00:27:25.015 --> 00:27:27.953 Problem solving, it's a different way of looking at life. 00:27:27.953 --> 00:27:30.890 Depression makes you very creative, right? 00:27:30.890 --> 00:27:34.015 A lot of writers, a lot of, you know, people who have been successful 00:27:34.015 --> 00:27:37.390 in the arts live with depression, musicians. 00:27:38.140 --> 00:27:40.578 so as long as we find ways to channel and understand it, 00:27:40.578 --> 00:27:44.328 we can actually find value in people who bring that to the workplace and can 00:27:44.328 --> 00:27:45.265 be authentic with it. 00:27:46.703 --> 00:27:49.141 That was an excellent answer, I must tell you. 00:27:49.141 --> 00:27:51.766 That was a really good answer for sure. 00:27:51.766 --> 00:27:52.578 another question. 00:27:52.578 --> 00:27:55.641 do you get any pushback sometimes when it feels 00:27:55.641 --> 00:27:59.078 that people want to change things, that they cannot and they can't do it? 00:27:59.391 --> 00:28:04.516 does it also take those who do not have a disability to fight for change? 00:28:04.953 --> 00:28:09.266 So one, I guess, do you get any pushback when people are trying to make change? 00:28:09.578 --> 00:28:14.266 And then secondly, it looks like if you don't have a disability, 00:28:14.516 --> 00:28:17.641 you know, what can you do as basically champion of those who do? 00:28:18.953 --> 00:28:22.453 Well, the, the the resistance is typically passive. 00:28:22.453 --> 00:28:26.828 Nobody's going to tell me to my face that something costs too much, or 00:28:27.453 --> 00:28:29.766 the one I hear all the time is, well, 00:28:29.766 --> 00:28:32.141 we don't really see that many people in wheelchairs. 00:28:32.141 --> 00:28:35.391 Well, because you don't have a way for them to get there. 00:28:35.391 --> 00:28:38.203 We see this in emergency shelters all the time. 00:28:38.203 --> 00:28:40.454 You don't see people in wheelchairs in these shelters 00:28:40.454 --> 00:28:43.766 because you're not making it easy for them to get in or people who are deaf. 00:28:44.391 --> 00:28:47.391 You don't see the need for sign language interpreters, because you haven't 00:28:47.829 --> 00:28:50.391 promoted the idea that they can get that support here. 00:28:50.391 --> 00:28:53.891 But we know by looking at data how many people in this county, 00:28:53.891 --> 00:28:57.266 this impacted county are deaf, and a good percentage of them 00:28:57.266 --> 00:29:00.766 will likely benefit from having an interpreter available. 00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:02.766 Right? So we kind of look at that. 00:29:02.766 --> 00:29:06.641 But the other part of it was what people who are not disabled can do. 00:29:06.641 --> 00:29:07.391 Yeah. Yeah. 00:29:07.391 --> 00:29:10.641 you know, I always say that you want to be kind 00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:13.266 and make the world good for people with disabilities, 00:29:13.266 --> 00:29:15.579 because if you live long enough, you may be one of us. 00:29:16.829 --> 00:29:17.891 you know, but I, 00:29:17.891 --> 00:29:20.829 I think it's just, again, there are so many benefits 00:29:20.829 --> 00:29:24.329 to people that are not disabled when you have a fully accessible world 00:29:24.954 --> 00:29:29.391 that once you understand the business case for it, then it should be a no brainer. 00:29:29.391 --> 00:29:33.017 And of course, we need people who are not disabled, people who are caregivers. 00:29:33.267 --> 00:29:35.329 My coworkers want to see me succeed. 00:29:35.329 --> 00:29:39.142 They want to see me be able to to keep up and do my job. 00:29:39.142 --> 00:29:40.329 So I think it's in 00:29:40.329 --> 00:29:43.579 the interests of a lot of us to support people who are our colleagues 00:29:44.142 --> 00:29:47.142 in their plight to have, you know, an accessible environment. 00:29:47.517 --> 00:29:49.267 Absolutely. We're almost out of time. 00:29:49.267 --> 00:29:51.329 So I do want to touch on two more questions. 00:29:51.329 --> 00:29:56.079 Can you talk about, briefly the gaps between standards and the intention? 00:29:56.517 --> 00:29:58.329 So I think we're talking about like the section 508 00:29:58.329 --> 00:30:00.329 standards, things of that nature. 00:30:00.329 --> 00:30:03.204 When we hear people say that it's ADA accessible 00:30:03.204 --> 00:30:06.267 and therefore it's perfect, that's a problem. 00:30:06.267 --> 00:30:08.392 The ADA is the low bar. 00:30:08.392 --> 00:30:11.392 That's the beginning of the conversation, right? 00:30:11.517 --> 00:30:14.642 But the end of the conversation is about the access itself. 00:30:15.204 --> 00:30:20.642 Putting a ramp on a building that's 45 degrees was not the point, right? 00:30:20.642 --> 00:30:22.267 It's too steep. 00:30:22.267 --> 00:30:25.705 But putting a ramp on a building that you know 00:30:25.705 --> 00:30:30.267 is the right slope, but it also doesn't require me to go through the kitchen 00:30:31.392 --> 00:30:33.392 in a restaurant to get to the dining area. 00:30:33.392 --> 00:30:35.330 Right? I mean, there's an intention there right now. 00:30:35.330 --> 00:30:39.330 I see that a lot where we try to exactly, you know, duct tape and cobble together 00:30:39.330 --> 00:30:41.330 solutions and say, that's good enough. 00:30:41.330 --> 00:30:42.830 Well, the whole point was the experience. 00:30:42.830 --> 00:30:44.642 It's not just about having a ramp. 00:30:44.642 --> 00:30:48.080 It's about what is what is the experience a person will have that emotional 00:30:48.080 --> 00:30:51.142 accessibility and connection that person has with the environment. 00:30:52.017 --> 00:30:53.642 Absolutely, absolutely. 00:30:53.642 --> 00:30:54.580 Well, look, we have another one. 00:30:54.580 --> 00:30:58.455 Are you working with insurance companies who do not provide enough services 00:30:58.642 --> 00:31:02.517 or deny the services for the disabled people, for example, 00:31:02.705 --> 00:31:06.455 physical or occupational therapy services, when needed? 00:31:07.517 --> 00:31:08.392 That's not my lane. 00:31:08.392 --> 00:31:10.330 No, I did do some of that work before. 00:31:10.330 --> 00:31:13.705 We did work with the VA on some of the problematic areas, but, 00:31:14.080 --> 00:31:18.018 and I am looking at Medicare and we're talking about ways 00:31:18.018 --> 00:31:21.830 that durable medical equipment, how that gets replaced after disasters 00:31:21.830 --> 00:31:26.205 through Medicare, the VA and what FEMA can do in that process. 00:31:26.205 --> 00:31:29.268 So we are kind of looking at that, but that's not really a lane I 00:31:29.268 --> 00:31:30.455 can delve too much into. 00:31:31.580 --> 00:31:32.143 Understood. 00:31:32.143 --> 00:31:33.268 And let me see. 00:31:33.268 --> 00:31:36.268 It looks like we do have a little bit more time because you actually had 00:31:36.393 --> 00:31:37.580 until almost 11:00. 00:31:37.580 --> 00:31:39.768 This is actually really great that people are asking this question. 00:31:39.768 --> 00:31:40.393 Okay. 00:31:40.393 --> 00:31:44.205 so this is fabulous information, Dr. Gillums. 00:31:44.580 --> 00:31:47.080 your expertise and insight is invaluable. 00:31:47.080 --> 00:31:48.830 You're awesome. Thank you, Dr. Gil. 00:31:48.830 --> 00:31:49.830 People are praising you, 00:31:49.830 --> 00:31:51.768 so they really like what they're hearing so far, 00:31:51.768 --> 00:31:54.643 folks, again, I really encourage you to ask these questions. 00:31:54.643 --> 00:31:55.643 And, Dr. Gillums, 00:31:55.643 --> 00:31:56.393 right now, well, 00:31:56.393 --> 00:31:57.205 you have the opportunity, 00:31:57.205 --> 00:32:00.268 because I think this is a great conversation that we're having right now. 00:32:00.705 --> 00:32:04.205 and again, you don't always have access to folks, access 00:32:04.205 --> 00:32:07.206 to folks like this. 00:32:11.831 --> 00:32:13.581 And this person makes the point about the, 00:32:13.581 --> 00:32:19.018 her granddaughter with disability and how it changed her perspective. 00:32:20.768 --> 00:32:21.331 I think that's 00:32:21.331 --> 00:32:24.768 true in a lot of cases, especially during Covid, when people were, 00:32:25.081 --> 00:32:27.206 not well coming out of the pandemic, 00:32:27.206 --> 00:32:30.206 and it became common to run into people who were impacted. 00:32:30.768 --> 00:32:32.143 so, yeah, you're gonna 00:32:32.143 --> 00:32:35.456 you're going to find yourself at some point in life, hopefully, 00:32:35.893 --> 00:32:37.706 learning from the lived 00:32:37.706 --> 00:32:40.206 experience of somebody and hopefully it's not your family member. 00:32:40.206 --> 00:32:45.331 But if it is, you should feel rest assured the society will not reject that person. 00:32:45.331 --> 00:32:48.331 there was a body of laws called ugly laws. 00:32:48.331 --> 00:32:50.143 during my lifetime. 00:32:50.143 --> 00:32:52.393 They were just rescinded in 1974. 00:32:52.393 --> 00:32:54.143 There were laws on the books that made it illegal 00:32:54.143 --> 00:32:55.581 to be in public with a disability. 00:32:55.581 --> 00:32:58.893 And that's why we had the Rehab Act in the ADA. 00:32:58.956 --> 00:33:00.769 Come about around that time period. 00:33:00.769 --> 00:33:05.331 But we were a society that looked upon people with disabilities, unkindly, 00:33:05.706 --> 00:33:08.894 and we have to learn from that because we could easily find ourselves 00:33:08.894 --> 00:33:10.331 in those in those times 00:33:10.331 --> 00:33:13.956 where people with disabilities are no longer regarded as people. 00:33:13.956 --> 00:33:15.519 And I never want to see a time like that. 00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:18.519 So, we can personalize it better. 00:33:18.769 --> 00:33:19.769 Absolutely. 00:33:19.769 --> 00:33:20.894 Another question came in, 00:33:20.894 --> 00:33:25.144 where is the best place to secure funding for accessibility projects? 00:33:26.769 --> 00:33:27.581 Well, there's, 00:33:27.581 --> 00:33:30.581 I would say that's probably more of a state level. 00:33:31.081 --> 00:33:33.019 and it differs in each state. 00:33:33.019 --> 00:33:38.831 States are responsible for, complying with the ADA. 00:33:38.831 --> 00:33:39.894 It's federally mandated, 00:33:39.894 --> 00:33:43.894 but it's state it's state, compliance, state level compliance. 00:33:43.894 --> 00:33:47.081 So, I wouldn't know off the top my head 00:33:47.206 --> 00:33:51.644 but I would start with looking at, ADA 00:33:51.707 --> 00:33:55.144 access entities in each state to see where they might recommend looking. 00:33:56.207 --> 00:33:58.707 Okay. 00:33:58.707 --> 00:34:01.457 See, let's say one name 00:34:01.457 --> 00:34:04.332 that says somebody asked a question, 00:34:04.332 --> 00:34:07.144 one of your teams discovered that there was a web design issue in East 00:34:07.144 --> 00:34:10.769 Palestine, was not screen reader accessible. 00:34:11.207 --> 00:34:12.582 How did I get resolved? 00:34:12.582 --> 00:34:15.582 Does FEMA provide funding to solve that? 00:34:17.082 --> 00:34:18.269 Well, it was resolved. 00:34:18.269 --> 00:34:20.457 well, number one, there were some complications. 00:34:20.457 --> 00:34:22.332 There wasn't a federally declared disaster. 00:34:22.332 --> 00:34:24.457 EPA was a lead agency. 00:34:24.457 --> 00:34:27.707 But what I did is we reached out to the county 00:34:27.707 --> 00:34:30.894 first to let them know that your website isn't isn't adequate. 00:34:30.894 --> 00:34:35.457 But we also started to put information on the FEMA website, with the help of EPA 00:34:35.707 --> 00:34:36.707 on their website. 00:34:36.707 --> 00:34:40.582 That gave, an alternative location for folks to get their information. 00:34:41.082 --> 00:34:44.582 again, it wasn't a federally declared disaster for our purposes. 00:34:44.582 --> 00:34:46.270 So we were limited in what we could do. 00:34:46.270 --> 00:34:48.145 But we work with stakeholders. 00:34:48.145 --> 00:34:50.332 I contact the centers for Independent Living 00:34:50.332 --> 00:34:53.395 to find out if they've got mailing lists and ways to contact people. 00:34:53.832 --> 00:34:58.395 so we try to find something to do, but it differs with each circumstance. 00:34:58.395 --> 00:35:02.020 And in that case, we had to find all the other ways to present the information. 00:35:02.395 --> 00:35:05.457 And and to the governor's credit, even though it didn't start that way, 00:35:05.457 --> 00:35:08.957 we did see a sign language interpreter brought in after 00:35:09.395 --> 00:35:12.207 we had made a noise about it, because there wasn't somebody 00:35:12.207 --> 00:35:15.520 doing sign language in the beginning during that disaster, if you recall. 00:35:15.520 --> 00:35:18.520 So those are the little ways we try to make a difference. 00:35:18.832 --> 00:35:21.895 And now you just actually made me kind of think of a question 00:35:21.895 --> 00:35:25.457 also in regards to a public facing website 00:35:25.832 --> 00:35:28.832 that the federal government doesn't have control over, maybe state, 00:35:29.332 --> 00:35:34.895 do you in FEMA provide training for accessibility for the state level 00:35:34.895 --> 00:35:38.833 or local government folks, or provide additional resources to make sure 00:35:38.833 --> 00:35:42.895 that they can create accessible content or point them in that direction? 00:35:42.895 --> 00:35:43.770 I should say. 00:35:43.770 --> 00:35:47.020 Yeah, all the work we do during steady state, which is pre 00:35:47.020 --> 00:35:50.020 disaster, should be the majority because that's preparedness. 00:35:50.333 --> 00:35:53.208 We do have regional disability integration specialists 00:35:53.208 --> 00:35:56.145 who are positioned in FEMA's ten regions. 00:35:56.145 --> 00:35:58.895 We do that engagement with stakeholders year round. 00:35:58.895 --> 00:36:01.520 You know ideally before disasters. 00:36:01.520 --> 00:36:03.708 but a lot of it is they have to have the interests. 00:36:03.708 --> 00:36:05.770 First of all, they have to prioritize it. 00:36:05.770 --> 00:36:08.270 And if they have the interest will meet them where they are. 00:36:08.270 --> 00:36:12.083 and fortunately, in a lot of places we see that unfortunately, 00:36:12.083 --> 00:36:15.145 it's oftentimes after a disaster and that gap has been exposed. 00:36:15.458 --> 00:36:17.208 So we do have people positioned 00:36:17.208 --> 00:36:20.208 in regions that that oversee that with their stakeholders. 00:36:20.520 --> 00:36:23.395 and what we hope is that the more people are asking, the more it's 00:36:23.395 --> 00:36:26.395 reflecting that we're getting it as a country. 00:36:26.645 --> 00:36:27.208 Absolutely. 00:36:27.208 --> 00:36:29.333 Being more proactive instead of reactive. 00:36:29.333 --> 00:36:31.521 Right? Absolutely. 100%. 00:36:31.521 --> 00:36:34.208 another question, came in, do you know 00:36:34.208 --> 00:36:38.083 any of the CX people at FEMA and your customer experience folks? 00:36:39.083 --> 00:36:41.708 my boss, 00:36:41.708 --> 00:36:43.958 Deputy Chief of Staff, she's in charge of customer experience. 00:36:43.958 --> 00:36:47.021 So I imagine I'll be working closely with her to, 00:36:47.021 --> 00:36:50.458 to, work on the CX project for the agency. 00:36:50.896 --> 00:36:54.521 You do you mind divulging her name so everybody knows her name? 00:36:54.521 --> 00:36:54.771 I don't know. 00:36:54.771 --> 00:36:55.521 If I should. 00:36:55.521 --> 00:36:58.083 Well, I mean, the staff is Jenna Peters. 00:36:58.083 --> 00:37:01.083 you know, she's, And I'm proud to have her as a great leader. 00:37:01.146 --> 00:37:04.146 I've learned a lot from her, but I think she was recently delegated 00:37:04.146 --> 00:37:06.646 the role of leading our customer experience. 00:37:06.646 --> 00:37:10.021 endeavor in the agency. 00:37:10.083 --> 00:37:11.458 Excellent, excellent. 00:37:11.458 --> 00:37:14.583 how do you feel about the a11y 00:37:14.583 --> 00:37:18.458 buttons on websites in terms of emotional aid 11y. 00:37:18.458 --> 00:37:20.021 Why are you familiar with that? 00:37:20.021 --> 00:37:21.396 I have no idea what that means. 00:37:21.396 --> 00:37:23.521 Okay, that's a new one for me too. 00:37:23.521 --> 00:37:24.896 Well, we'll. I'll look it up. 00:37:24.896 --> 00:37:25.834 Oh. Yeah. 00:37:25.834 --> 00:37:27.959 We'll have to take a look at that a little bit later on. 00:37:27.959 --> 00:37:30.959 how can we, as allies, be of help? 00:37:31.396 --> 00:37:35.771 don't ever want to come across as condescending, but it won't help. 00:37:35.771 --> 00:37:38.771 So a person basically, you know, again, as a person, 00:37:39.146 --> 00:37:41.646 I'm going to kind of backtrack and like what you said earlier, and I'm 00:37:41.646 --> 00:37:45.271 thinking about what my old director used to say, we're only able body today. 00:37:45.271 --> 00:37:48.084 We're not guaranteed of what's going to happen tomorrow. 00:37:48.084 --> 00:37:53.021 So as an able bodied person, how do you become a help for somebody, 00:37:53.084 --> 00:37:56.521 not become somebody who's kind of like looking down? 00:37:57.584 --> 00:37:59.271 I always, 00:37:59.271 --> 00:38:02.271 you know, make no assumptions. 00:38:02.396 --> 00:38:07.771 I have so many people who who compare me and their interaction with me, with their 00:38:07.771 --> 00:38:10.146 And I say grandmother all the time because it's always her grandmother. 00:38:10.146 --> 00:38:12.834 My grandmother was in a wheelchair, at the time. 00:38:12.834 --> 00:38:15.834 I'm a 28 year old, you know, in retiring marine. 00:38:15.834 --> 00:38:17.084 I'm not your grandmother. 00:38:17.084 --> 00:38:19.209 Nothing against your grandma, but I'm something. 00:38:19.209 --> 00:38:22.272 I'm trying to be more independent or, you know, in some cases, 00:38:22.272 --> 00:38:23.022 when you think somebody's 00:38:23.022 --> 00:38:26.022 struggling or having a hard time, what they're doing is they're overcoming 00:38:26.397 --> 00:38:29.459 a personal challenge as they set for themselves and are solving a problem. 00:38:29.459 --> 00:38:34.709 So interjecting yourself into the life of somebody who appears to be disabled 00:38:34.709 --> 00:38:37.709 and having a hard time, just ask, hey, can I help you? 00:38:37.709 --> 00:38:39.522 If not, hey, you want to go get coffee? 00:38:39.522 --> 00:38:42.459 You know, don't make it awkward, but there's so many etiquette things. 00:38:42.459 --> 00:38:43.834 There are different views on that. 00:38:43.834 --> 00:38:47.897 I would say just treat a person like you want to be treated as an individual 00:38:47.897 --> 00:38:49.084 with autonomy. 00:38:49.084 --> 00:38:51.709 Absolutely. And make an. Example on it. 00:38:51.709 --> 00:38:54.397 I'll, you know, I've worked with some folks who are, 00:38:54.397 --> 00:38:56.209 I like to say, visually impaired. 00:38:56.209 --> 00:39:00.709 And, you know, the one thing is I'm always trying to be a helpful person also. 00:39:01.209 --> 00:39:02.459 But you don't want to be that person 00:39:02.459 --> 00:39:04.522 when you're walking across the street and grab somebody's 00:39:04.522 --> 00:39:06.147 arm and think, acting like they're child. 00:39:06.147 --> 00:39:08.022 They're not, you know, they're an adult. 00:39:08.022 --> 00:39:09.710 Do you need any help? 00:39:09.710 --> 00:39:10.835 And they'll let you know. 00:39:10.835 --> 00:39:13.335 So just ask the question. You're absolutely right. 00:39:13.335 --> 00:39:16.085 I get people who walk up behind me oh well. 00:39:16.085 --> 00:39:17.835 And start doing I don't have handles on my chair 00:39:17.835 --> 00:39:19.897 for that reason, but they will, and they're well-meaning, 00:39:19.897 --> 00:39:21.397 so I don't get angry. 00:39:21.397 --> 00:39:23.147 But you can you can almost hurt somebody. 00:39:23.147 --> 00:39:24.835 I mean, if somebody has got it in their mind 00:39:24.835 --> 00:39:28.335 that they're navigating a situation, if I'm on a sidewalk in D.C., 00:39:28.835 --> 00:39:31.210 I've got it, and I have no problem asking for help. 00:39:31.210 --> 00:39:33.397 I have no problem stopping somebody. 00:39:33.397 --> 00:39:37.710 And I think if we assume autonomy first, then I'll tell you if they need help. 00:39:37.710 --> 00:39:39.647 And sometimes they may just want to sit and talk to you. 00:39:39.647 --> 00:39:42.585 Maybe they don't even want you to focus on a disability. 00:39:42.585 --> 00:39:46.085 so, you know, it's it's going to be situation dependent, but I would say 00:39:46.085 --> 00:39:49.960 assume autonomy first and then ask how you might be able to help. 00:39:50.397 --> 00:39:52.210 That's another great one of my to write down. 00:39:52.210 --> 00:39:53.647 Assume autonomy first. 00:39:53.647 --> 00:39:57.148 And also I think is important that we always look at 00:39:57.148 --> 00:40:00.148 people first and a disability later. 00:40:00.460 --> 00:40:05.648 Because you are a person first, you are not just a person with a disability. 00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:07.460 And I don't even like using that word. 00:40:07.460 --> 00:40:08.898 You're a person first. 00:40:08.898 --> 00:40:10.273 I'll be in line at a 00:40:10.273 --> 00:40:13.773 at a supermarket, and I'll have people walk up to me and say, what happened? 00:40:14.523 --> 00:40:15.335 Just what happened? 00:40:15.335 --> 00:40:17.898 They'll they'll see, military or whatever. 00:40:17.898 --> 00:40:19.398 And I don't know what they're talking about 00:40:19.398 --> 00:40:20.710 because I'm just living in my life, 00:40:20.710 --> 00:40:23.773 and it's some guy whose son is in the Marine Corps. 00:40:23.773 --> 00:40:24.960 Whatever. 00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:27.085 And I'll forget was. What are they talking about? 00:40:27.085 --> 00:40:29.585 You mean what happened? He's talking about the wheelchair, obviously. 00:40:29.585 --> 00:40:33.710 But I don't live my life defining myself by this, so sometimes I'll 00:40:33.710 --> 00:40:37.835 forget that, that other people, you know, they just seem chair. But. 00:40:38.335 --> 00:40:40.085 But that's kind of human nature, I guess. 00:40:40.085 --> 00:40:44.148 So I forgive, but it's it's tough to have a conversation when that begins 00:40:44.148 --> 00:40:45.023 the conversation. 00:40:45.023 --> 00:40:46.773 They want to know everything about the chair, 00:40:46.773 --> 00:40:49.398 but nothing about the fact that I'm the disability coordinator. 00:40:49.398 --> 00:40:51.086 I raised four daughters. 00:40:51.086 --> 00:40:52.898 I've got a daughter at the Naval Academy. 00:40:52.898 --> 00:40:54.273 You know, I finish a doctorate, but, you know, 00:40:54.273 --> 00:40:55.398 they don't want know any of that stuff. 00:40:55.398 --> 00:40:57.648 They want to know what happened, you know. 00:40:57.648 --> 00:41:00.961 Well, what happened was 20 years ago, a lot of I forget, you know, sometimes. 00:41:01.086 --> 00:41:02.336 Yes. Right. 00:41:02.336 --> 00:41:03.336 Right. 00:41:03.336 --> 00:41:06.336 Well, all right, we have about two more minutes here. 00:41:06.461 --> 00:41:09.211 how do employees and visitors evacuate 00:41:09.211 --> 00:41:13.461 during fire drills or emergencies above the first floor 00:41:13.461 --> 00:41:15.961 or basement, as an example? 00:41:15.961 --> 00:41:18.148 That's the $64,000 question. 00:41:18.148 --> 00:41:23.523 I am now working with, facility staff on answering that question. And, 00:41:24.523 --> 00:41:27.148 if you know, the policies weren't clear 00:41:27.148 --> 00:41:30.148 when I got there, but that's why I ask about the evacuate shares. 00:41:30.523 --> 00:41:32.586 I ask because there are ways to do that. 00:41:32.586 --> 00:41:35.586 But hurricane Sandy was an example of how not to do it, 00:41:36.148 --> 00:41:39.586 and it's my job to make sure that we're giving the leadership all the insight. 00:41:39.586 --> 00:41:41.086 So it's my job to figure that out. 00:41:41.086 --> 00:41:45.586 And we're working on best practices such as windows, 00:41:45.586 --> 00:41:47.524 you know, where you can put the disability placard 00:41:47.524 --> 00:41:50.649 and show where you're located, things like that for firefighters. 00:41:50.899 --> 00:41:53.586 So there are ways to do that we're going to work through. 00:41:53.586 --> 00:41:56.274 Can you touch a little bit on hurricane Sandy 00:41:56.274 --> 00:42:00.086 and what the negative experiences were that you just mentioned a moment ago? 00:42:00.086 --> 00:42:01.586 I think that's important for this conversation. 00:42:01.586 --> 00:42:02.149 Yeah. 00:42:02.149 --> 00:42:03.586 People were trapped in high rises 00:42:03.586 --> 00:42:06.586 when a power was out for days and weeks at a time. 00:42:06.774 --> 00:42:09.274 So if you had a wheelchair, you were stuck in there. 00:42:09.274 --> 00:42:10.711 No air conditioning. 00:42:10.711 --> 00:42:12.274 the flooding was bad enough. 00:42:12.274 --> 00:42:15.211 The shelters were bad enough, but there were people trapped 00:42:15.211 --> 00:42:19.086 by the environmental circumstances that were somewhat under the control 00:42:19.086 --> 00:42:22.086 of responders, and their constant 00:42:22.149 --> 00:42:24.961 mantra was, we treat everybody equally well. 00:42:24.961 --> 00:42:26.211 That doesn't work in disasters. 00:42:26.211 --> 00:42:28.899 Everybody's not equally positioned and similarly situated, 00:42:28.899 --> 00:42:31.961 so you can't treat everybody equally during disaster response. 00:42:33.212 --> 00:42:34.837 Excellent, excellent. 00:42:34.837 --> 00:42:35.212 All right. 00:42:35.212 --> 00:42:36.024 Let's see. 00:42:36.024 --> 00:42:38.712 another one one of our last questions here. 00:42:38.712 --> 00:42:40.149 I think we have about a minute left. 00:42:40.149 --> 00:42:45.837 Does FEMA or DHS require its funded programs to be 508 conformant. 00:42:45.837 --> 00:42:48.837 i.e. not federally conducted. Yes. 00:42:49.274 --> 00:42:52.399 Federal funding requires Rehab Act compliance. 00:42:52.399 --> 00:42:55.399 And that's where we get the 508 compliance standards. 00:42:55.524 --> 00:42:56.899 Absolutely. 00:42:56.899 --> 00:42:59.524 Excellent. Excellent. Okay. 00:42:59.524 --> 00:43:02.837 And then a couple people are of course giving you more shout outs raised 4 daughters. 00:43:02.837 --> 00:43:05.837 Well congratulations have a lot of people 00:43:05.837 --> 00:43:08.837 say thank you very much for your service. 00:43:08.962 --> 00:43:12.399 you know, again, top notch presentation. 00:43:12.837 --> 00:43:16.899 it looks like the folks are actually become very active in the chat. 00:43:16.899 --> 00:43:22.524 They're starting to place in some links and some, YouTube links, I love it. 00:43:22.962 --> 00:43:25.587 Oh, I think, you're one of our top 00:43:25.587 --> 00:43:28.962 presenters, so far because, All right, all right, raising the bar. 00:43:28.962 --> 00:43:30.712 A lot of accolades. 00:43:30.712 --> 00:43:33.212 Well, folks, again, 00:43:33.212 --> 00:43:36.712 I really appreciate this conversation and this presentation today. 00:43:36.837 --> 00:43:41.275 Dr. Gillum, I think it went from the presentation into the conversation, 00:43:41.587 --> 00:43:45.400 and I really enjoyed engaging and having this conversation with you. 00:43:45.712 --> 00:43:48.337 I really enjoyed your candor. 00:43:48.337 --> 00:43:51.650 and again, we really appreciate your service to this country 00:43:51.650 --> 00:43:52.650 for ours that we love. 00:43:52.650 --> 00:43:54.775 So again, thank you so much. 00:43:54.775 --> 00:43:56.337 look forward to talking to you again. 00:43:56.337 --> 00:43:59.337 And maybe we can have you back next year anytime. 00:43:59.337 --> 00:44:00.837 And thank you to the interpreters. 00:44:00.837 --> 00:44:02.400 You're doing an excellent job. Thank you. 00:44:03.837 --> 00:44:04.900 [VINCE] All right. 00:44:04.900 --> 00:44:05.712 Thank you so much. 00:44:05.712 --> 00:44:06.275 Thanks, everybody. 00:44:06.275 --> 00:44:09.275 Good to go. 00:44:11.337 --> 00:44:14.337 All right folks. 00:44:14.650 --> 00:44:17.338 That was actually a really good presentation. 00:44:17.338 --> 00:44:21.900 I really enjoyed having a conversation, with Dr. Sherman Gillums, Jr. 00:44:21.963 --> 00:44:26.463 I think having that type of insight really does make a difference. 00:44:26.713 --> 00:44:31.400 you really need to be able to speak to folks to know what their experiences like, 00:44:31.588 --> 00:44:33.900 but then also looking at it from a standpoint 00:44:33.900 --> 00:44:37.338 of what they're doing to make changes in the environment for everybody. 00:44:37.650 --> 00:44:40.838 So at this time, it is actually 11:00. 00:44:41.213 --> 00:44:44.275 So now it is time for our stretch. 00:44:44.650 --> 00:44:47.650 so that we can stretch and kind of take a break for a moment. 00:44:47.900 --> 00:44:51.650 So we are going to have a break from 11 to 11:15. 00:44:51.838 --> 00:44:53.775 So we'll see you back on the other side, folks.