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  1. Science and Technology
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  5. Episode 3: Our Borders Are Not Just a Linear Map

Our Borders Are Not Just a Linear Map

Our Borders Are Not Just a Linear Map

Matt Barger, director of S&T’s Maritime and Immigration Security Solutions Division, talks about how we’re safeguarding the nation’s borders and ensuring the safety and integrity of trade and travel, especially when it comes to maritime security. He explains that borders are not a linear map or a two-dimensional picture—they exist underwater, in the air, over land, underground, and even in space and cyberspace. Matt also weighs in on whether Jack could have survived in the movie Titanic. 

Run time: 32:43
Release Date: November 15, 2023

Show Notes

Host: Deepak Saini, Media Strategist, Science and Technology Directorate, Department of Homeland Security

Guest: Matt Barger, Director, Maritime and Immigration Security Solutions Division, Science and Technology Directorate, Department of Homeland Security

 [00:00:00] Matt Barger: That's the nature of the work is that our borders are not just a linear map, a linear two-dimensional picture. It is a three-dimensional, underwater, on top of the water, in the air, over land, underground, even in space is an international barrier and even cyberspace. Our investments and our consideration of cyber is always in our minds as we're looking at the maritime domain because it is just another entry point into the United States.

[00:00:27] Dave: This is Technologically Speaking, the official podcast for the Department of Homeland Security Science and Technology Directorate, or S&T as we call it. Join us as we meet the science and technology experts on the frontlines keeping America safe.

[00:00:41] Deepak: Hi and welcome to this episode of Technologically Speaking. Joining us is Matt Barger, Director of the Maritime and Immigration Security Solutions Division. Welcome, Matt!!

[00:00:52] Matt Barger: Thanks! Good to be here.

[00:00:54] Deepak: Yeah, happy to have you on. So excited to talk to you. You have such an important role. What you do is vital to safeguarding our borders, preventing illicit activities, and ensuring the safety and integrity of trade and travel in an interconnected world is happening, especially when it comes to maritime security.

[00:01:12] I'm sure. So talk to me a little bit about. How did you even end up at the Science and Technology Directorate? You had such a long, extensive career in the Army. I'm just curious what kind of led you over here.

[00:01:26] Matt Barger: So, I started at the Cyber and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) within the Department. I really had a passion for the homeland, leaving the army and my career there, and I saw a very vast mission area and domain space to be able to solve. So, leaving the army, I said, you know, DHS is, is a place I'd like to try.

[00:01:48] And then after a few years over in CISA, I fell in love, and I wanted to stay around, and the technology space brought me to science and technology. I thought that this would be where I can make the biggest impact. And this is where I've really enjoyed my time in DHS.

[00:02:05] Deepak: Speaking of making a big impact, I feel like you do that in your personal life as well, you have such a long list of the ways you make an impact and give back, not only at work, but in the community, you know, life is so hard and you seem to have a soft spot for those in need. I understand you've been volunteering at an organization called SOME (So Others Might Eat) for I think about 8 years or so. So, it seems like to me, you're like an around the clock public servant. What's the experience like working for SOME?

[00:02:35] Matt Barger: I've established myself as, someone who wants to give back to the community I live in. So, you know, in addition to SOME and the other giving back organizations in feeding the folks in the local community, I also give back in coaching, sports coaching in the time that I give to baseball, softball, hockey, other sports. And then I also like and enjoy scouting. So, I give back as a scout leader, to the local community and the kids in our community. So, I really do like giving back to those that need it and I can provide service to those around me.

[00:03:09] Deepak: You're such a busy man, Matt. How do you have time for it all with work? I mean, work is so demanding, especially with what you do for a living, did you have a fun summer? Did you do anything worthwhile you want to mention?

[00:03:22] Matt Barger: I did. I was able to, you know, apply my professional interests in a personal way. I was able to go on a cruise out, a ship cruise, out in the northern European area. Started out in Iceland and toured northern England and also England itself in the UK proper. So, it was a very fun experience out in the Arctic, being able to experience the maritime domain you know, in a way with my family and enjoyable visits as a tourist to some spectacular sites.

[00:03:52] Deepak: I was just going to ask you, right, that sounds a little bit like a borderline processor job, right? Were you able to shut your work brain off and just enjoy, or were you assessing things from your maritime solutions point of view?

[00:04:06] Matt Barger: I was able to shut it off pretty well, but every time I saw a Coast Guard or a naval vessel or some kind of flag ship there doing something in the area that I do in my day job, it did bring me back to, to, you know, thinking of some solutions. Adapting some problem sets as an international community we can come together, because the maritime program set is international inherently, because we all share some kind of water border with the rest of the world as the United States.

[00:04:34] So, looking at, you know, flying over Iceland and flying into the airport, you know, I was able to see one of their Coast Guard vessels sitting in the port and it made me think about, you know, what might that boat be doing in their mission that day.

[00:04:47] Deepak: Oh, nice. Yeah, it is hard, right? You have so much passion for your job, so you can't always, you know, shut it off, right? But as long as you're passionate about what you do, then it doesn't always necessarily matter. All right, so let's fall right into it. Let's get into some specifics. How did the Maritime Safety and Security Program come to be?

[00:05:08] Matt Barger: I think the original interest was, there is a land border, there's a maritime border, certainly there's an air layer, you know, that travels over the United States, people that come and go into our country, there's a variety of ways that, that occurs, and originally the, I think, Maritime was, and the borders, was one of the first and one of the oldest programs in S&T because it initially started out to look at, people have to get to the country, so we have to do some research and we have to do some work into, you know, screening the right people or screening the people that come into the United States, or how do people actually get here?

[00:05:48] Studying the transportation problem, the goods and services that we enjoy in the United States, it has to get here somehow. We have to make sure it's legal. We have to make sure it's safe. It is what it says that it says it is on the manifest. So, it is very important that there is a border presence for the United States and most of our border actually is in the maritime domain. There's much more water that borders our country than there is land. So, the maritime program has always been a high priority for DHS and S&T.

[00:06:18] Deepak: I've always found that interesting, right? Because water always transcends borders and it's not like it's a physical barrier, so I feel like that makes your job a lot more complex than some, right?

[00:06:28] Matt Barger: Yeah, cause it's not as easy as just walking or driving a vehicle as we do in our normal day. It takes a degree of difficulty to be a mariner and be able to get on a vessel, navigate yourself across waters that may be, you know, rocky or stormy or you don't have a point of reference to be able to navigate.

[00:06:46] So it takes a level of skill for someone to, to, you know, approach and be received at our, at a border entry for us at the maritime domain. So it is, it does add a little bit more sophistication to those, that, that visit or those that, immigrate to the United States through the maritime domain.

[00:07:05] Deepak: So, at S&T your job is to work with our Department and its operational Components on solutions for... This scope, right? You're working with the Coast Guard, with the Customs and Border Protection, CBP, and also ICE, right? What are they telling you that they need you to help them solve when it comes to R&D solutions?

[00:07:26] Matt Barger: The thing I would say that many of the customers have been asking for is to solve that kind of mid-level applied research problem set.

[00:07:34] So our university systems are incredible. We have the Centers of Excellence and the University Programs group within S&T. They have been doing some incredible work. The area that is missing often, and we get demand signals all the time is, hey, how can we bring this knowledge to something that we can try out in a prototype form?

[00:07:54] How can we get a test event? How can we get something that we can, allow S&T to take the risk? And then, we as a Component benefit and integrate into our operations. So, we rely heavily on S&T and then we take to heart that they rely heavily on us to create joint work for them where the whole Department benefits, but the Coast Guard, you know, ICE, CBP, all those Components can look at what we do and then make their mission space, their mission set better.

[00:08:23] Deepak: You've done a lot of great work with the Components and quite a few major milestones under your belt. One of them being successfully identifying suspect activity. I think this was in April of 2022. It resulted in the interdiction and seizure of narcotics, which had an estimated street value of nearly 35Million. That is not a small number. What was that experience like?

[00:08:46] Matt Barger: It's incredible to be able to make an impact, to be able to see what you do as a scientist, as a technologist, as a program manager, as an engineer, being able to solve some very complex problems, especially when it's Personnel like you mentioned, trying to avoid detection, trying to avoid the legal process or the screeners or the capabilities that we have to make sure, you know, things are occurring in a legal manner.

[00:09:12] So, you know, any kind of illicit drugs, narcotics, you know, illegal goods or the like. It is imperative that we enable our law enforcement folks in the Department to be able to stop, interdict, identify, and then, be able to process those folks and those goods as they try to, harm our population of our citizens, and potentially harm the economics of the country.

[00:09:34] So that was very important for us. We took it very serious and very passionate to be able to address the, the problems of illicit goods flowing into the country.

[00:09:44] Deepak: Matt, that's great work. What kind of tech was used in that operation?

[00:09:48] Matt Barger: Yeah, so from a combination of sensors, we want to make sure we can sense and discriminate, illicit goods from legal goods. We also want to make sure that the craft that are used to traverse the maritime domain or the airspace over the maritime domain are, you know, legal identifying or self, self-recognized and then, so we use technology to be able to detect the vessel itself, because it's transporting the goods. And then we also want to make sure that we have someone coordinating on the ground to be able to receive or interact with that vessel and those personnel as they make landfall. So, it's a very important piece, to make sure we have the technology and scanning and sensing and analytics, deep analytics to be able to take a variety and thousands of bits of data to compile a picture for those operators to apply the resources where needed and when.

[00:10:44] Deepak: That's so interesting. It's, as you're describing this and I'm trying to visualize it, it seems like a 360 approach. You kind of go from above, below, sideways on the ground. That's fascinating to me.

[00:10:57] Matt Barger: You do, and that's the nature of the work is that our borders are not just a linear map, a linear two-dimensional picture, it is a three-dimensional, underwater, on top of the water, in the air, over land, underground, even in space layer is a international barrier and even cyberspace. Our investments and our consideration of cyber is always in our minds as we're looking at the maritime domain, because it is just another entry point into the United States.

[00:11:26] Deepak: Speaking of space, one program that really caught my attention, and this was such a huge accomplishment on your part, was the integration of the S&T developed system that utilizes synthetic aperture radar. So, SAR, which is the acronym for it. Satellite imagery, it automates detection and reporting of iceberg locations for the Coast Guard's International Ice Patrol. It was a proud accomplishment for S&T. I would love for you to just kind of dive into that.

[00:11:55] Matt Barger: Yeah, and it is a great accomplishment. It's a real-world problem set, you know, it's a natural hazard, that's really the important piece of S&T, is we bring an all-hazard approach, applying science and technology principles, you know, using the best engineers in the world, using the best companies and Industry collaboration possible, and this was no, no different.

[00:12:16] This was the ability for those ships, commercial, you know, private vessels, you know, just like myself as I was on vacation, you know, on a cruise boat in the Icelandic area where icebergs originate, and then traverse down the coast of the Atlantic, the tide of the Atlantic Ocean.

[00:12:34] It was very important for me and very personal, to see that the R&D that we had applied to this problem set being able to identify icebergs in the iceberg season and help the International Ice Patrol within the Coast Guard conduct their mission, which they have done for 100 years now, it was a very important piece and very proud for me to deliver to a customer.

[00:12:56] Deepak: Yeah, what I found interesting was, you know, their iceberg recognizance missions, of course, historically done with cutters, right? And, you know, this all started after the Titanic tragedy that folks are really familiar with, right? So, it seems like at first, icebergs were kind of detected kind of at base level and then of course, and they use their planes, right, to detect them from the air. But now we have this SAR technology, you know, that we can fuse satellites with that as well. Can you just kind of do a high-level overview of how this technology works and it helps the Coast Guard detect icebergs?

[00:13:32] Matt Barger: Yeah. So, what's interesting about radar is it can be used in the maritime domain by a ship that has a radar mounted on it and it sends out energy. And then that energy returns in a reflective way to that energy source. And then it, creates a picture. So, it's a very important part of the safety of the maritime domain because every ship has some kind of radar attached to it and planes use it all the time.

[00:13:57] You know, the ground uses it to sense aircraft in the air. It's a sensory technology that is very important and has been widely used, the icebergs themselves give off a reflection because they're solid and they're operating and they're floating in a liquid state, which is the ocean.

[00:14:16] So it is something you can detect. Anything solid will send back a different energy, and return than the water, which is fluid, which sends back, another reflection. So that's how, satellite and the space layer has been really able to change the game in the ocean, because the ocean is vast.

[00:14:35] And as you said, it would take, hundreds and thousands of hours for a vessel or aircraft to patrol the area that space can, and really the game changing space capability has brought around a lot of hours saved, a lot of time and money, being able to be saved from the increased capabilities in the space layer.

[00:14:55] Deepak: So, this might be a stretch, but could it also help look at maybe endangered species of marine mammals, like let's say some types of whales and kind of individually or them in a group, or did I just create like a new job for you?

[00:15:12] Matt Barger: You know, I think what's interesting is when I was on vacation as we mentioned, as I mentioned earlier in the opening is, you know, vacation in Iceland, we also were able to go out and whale watch. And one of the interesting things that the guide told us that was a marine biologist by trade, she mentioned that undersea mammals and other creatures under the water, you know, are potentially damaged by large radar signals or large energy emanating, uh, you know, capabilities like sonar, you know, they had to, turn off much of their high powered equipment to not damage the undersea creatures. So, the whales and other mammals that use sonar naturally to navigate themselves underwater, could often be damaged or confused or, you know, it could create trouble for them naturally in their natural environment.

[00:16:01] So that was something that we have an environmental safety office within DHS S&T that is very important to us. You know, anytime we develop something or research something in the maritime domain, we rely heavily on their expertise and knowledge of the laws and the mammals and the resources that, that we all enjoy.

[00:16:18] Deepak: Yeah, this is so fascinating, Matt. And I remember when we were talking to the Coast Guard this would save the millions a year, which is helpful because then they can use it for other efforts as well. Do you know as of this current state, where Coast Guard is with this technology? I remember last year that we're going to test it out, right? And then just evaluate and then whatever modifications would need to be made. But do you happen to have a status update on that?

[00:16:45] Matt Barger: Yeah, they have integrated it. It has fully been handed off to the International Ice Patrol. They've integrated the algorithms and the sensor platforms and the packages into their system. So, this summer, this past summer, they have been using it. And I haven't got specific user feedback directly, but what I've seen is that they are very happy. The office that hosts that function within Coast Guard is eager to work with us again, maybe provide some follow-on ideas or some follow on opportunities to work with International Ice Patrol, and then certainly the sensing aspect from space or from any domain, is something that we heavily invest in every year, and we offer the opportunity to work with those partners. So, I think this is a great success story and other successes build on this success.

[00:17:35] Deepak: Yeah, no, it's such a great success story. And I remember we called it Operation Titanic. And, you know, it's, so many people are familiar with the Titanic tragedy in 1912. You know, what's great is it seems like this is such an advancement in technology that it could hopefully prevent things like that happening again in the future.

[00:17:56] Matt Barger: Yeah. And I think it will. And when I was able to visit Belfast and the shipyards where the Titanic was manufactured on vacation this past summer, yeah, it was amazing. Just seeing where the birth where the Titanic itself was assembled and then launched in Belfast and then eventually launched with the passengers from South Hampton.

[00:18:15] One of the, one of the things that the Titanic Museum that I took away from was, a lot of the engineers and a lot of the scientists that participated from the White Star Line company, which produced the Titanic had, you know, hundreds of innovations that they wanted to integrate with this vessel.

[00:18:31] And many of them were thought of from, you know, academia and industry and driven by, by, you know, the need to improve the vessel experience. So, it was a very, important, you know, aspect at the time to be able to integrate new technologies into current operations.

[00:18:48] Deepak: That is fascinating to me. Okay, so then this is going to be the hardest question I have for you throughout this whole interview. Could Jack have fit with Rose on the headboard in the water?

[00:19:00] Matt Barger: I, he could have. But I think the, you know, the plot and the story and the suspense and the, uh, climax of the story would have been different if that had changed.

[00:19:11] Deepak: No, that's fascinating. All right. So, one thing I want to cover with this too before we move on is the transatlantic shipping lanes, obviously economic, you know, importance for both, you know, the European countries and also us here in America, how can this technology help improve or impact ship passengers’ experiences and also for trade and commerce between the Atlantic?

[00:19:35] Matt Barger: It's a big deal. The commercial assets that traverse the oceans every day are, you know, dwarf any other mode of transportation, you know, aircraft and vehicle, ground based vehicles, and even commerce through pipelines, you know, the maritime domain still dominates the volume of goods that traverse our globe.

[00:19:58] And to keep those vessels safe, keep our world economy healthy, you know, keep U.S. interests, domestic and abroad, aligned is very important. And so I will say, you know, DHS is one piece of that international maritime imperative. And so, we definitely rely on our international partners, we rely on our partnerships with other federal agencies and departments, and we heavily rely on those in the commercial and industry market to work with us, to make sure that those transportation lines, those avenues of commerce, those avenues of economic prosperity for the globe, remain open and safe and secure.

[00:20:38] Deepak: I remember, you know, we worked together on amplifying last year, the waterway harmonization project, right, which is digitized maps that are synergized, right? Can you talk to me a little bit about this project and its successes as well?

[00:20:53] Matt Barger: It's amazing how many folks don't realize that the maritime domain, besides being a major throughway and a major transportation network within our country is also largely paper based and it's largely not digitized. And it's amazing that if once you study this and you look at all the waterways that, that, you know, populate our United States, they're dynamic, the tides and the flow of water often changes the navigable areas daily.

[00:21:25] So, you know, there are several DHS entities that require these waterways to be accurate. And of course, the commercial industry relies heavily on, the federal government, state, locals, and updated maps to be able to make sure that their ships don't run aground or cause damage to underwater infrastructure or other, you know, navigable issues.

[00:21:46] So, yes, the project that we've delivered is almost like, updated map, you know, ways application for the waterways, and it finally has been able to give a digitized view for the mariners as they navigate the waterways.

[00:22:02] Deepak: One thing that I found interesting about this too, is I didn't realize as well, you know, of course, climate change is happening, and I didn't realize how much that along these waterways, you know, where water needs to land so much of that is changing. Right? So, if you have an outdated paper map you've been using for a few decades and, you know, we hold on to the things that work for us. Things may look drastically different now. And if things are digitized, it's the same for everybody. Right? So, everyone's working with the most up to date proper information. Not only that, but I also feel like if maybe someone's stranded or needs rescuing this is so helpful for that too.

[00:22:43] Matt Barger: It is, and I would say that, recently I took a pleasure craft out on one of the lakes down in Alabama and one of the major advantages to updating and creating digital maps and navigational aids is that it offers fishermen, it offers, you know, private boaters, it offers, you know, any commercial vessel that now needs detailed navigational maps and depth charts, and now really increases safety across all those uses of the inland waterways as a transportation mechanism.

[00:23:16] So, yes, I agree. I think that is something that, that is, you know, has been a long time, been a tradition and a required experience for mariners to be able to navigate safely. We can now transfer it and people can get, much, much more safely around the waterways with the digital navigation lane.

[00:23:37] Deepak: Listen, you do a great job in your role. And you and your team work really hard to uphold the DHS mission and to support our operational Components and first responders in general. Of course, with, you know, with the type of work you do, there is going to be big challenges, right? And, you know, challenges when we see successes from those, obviously makes, you know, the results and the ROI a lot sweeter, right? But there’s always roadblocks. Has your program ever come across any roadblocks? And how do you kind of address those challenges and grow from those?

[00:24:12] Matt Barger: Yeah, I would say there's three challenges that have been enduring since I've been in the position and have been a, you know, member of S&T. I would say the first is that the workforce of today and the workforce of tomorrow are going to look different. So, you know, encouraging folks to, you know, join careers in STEM, you know, want to be in the security field, want to be program managers and acquisition professionals, I would say, and also operate in the maritime domain.

[00:24:36] You know, the mariners, is a very specialized skill set to operate safely on the water. So, I think just growing the next generation of professionals in both acquisition and maritime operations and security and homeland security, is a very important piece. I think the second area that, that has been a constant challenge is the ability to operate and communicate.

[00:24:58] So as you mentioned earlier with, you know, the reference to Titanic and the narcotics seizure, we have to be able to operate and be aware of what's in the maritime domain. And then once we're there, communicate with each other, with our state and local, with international partners, or with that private vessel that's in distress or that private vessel that, you know, it's non-compliant that we have to create law enforcement actions with.

[00:25:23] So I think this is, you know, communications and the ability to be aware of what's in the domain, is the number two roadblock. And then I would say the number three roadblock that we have to constantly, you know, encounter is the challenge of the dynamic threat that, that occurs, you know, boats and, personnel, organized crime, you know, the terrorism, these threat vectors are constantly evolving, constantly dynamic, so we have to rise to the challenge and apply our analytics to be able to counter and prevent, and mitigate any threats that were to come to our maritime infrastructure, the ports that we enjoy today, or even the vessels that, that, you know, pleasure craft that are out on the lakes and the rivers and the oceans today, I think that's a very important consideration and roadblock if we are not able to continue, you know, analyzing the threat as we do, that would be a vulnerability that would be introduced.

[00:26:22] Deepak: What advice do you have for the youth? Folks in college, folks younger than us, right? That are still trying to figure out what they want to do with their life, right? Of course, you would encourage them to... You know, to maybe look into a job kind of like what you do. Right? So, if someone listening is inspired by your role and your scope in this world, what advice would you give them?

[00:26:46] Matt Barger: I think for the young listeners, the important piece is you have to be willing to learn and adapt and be willing to be excited about things that you may not personally be passionate about. I think that's the important piece of being a professional, you know, in Homeland Security is we all love this mission but we're not all, we don’t have deep 20, 30-year careers in maybe what we're doing at the moment.

[00:27:12] So I think it's the ability to learn very quickly, be able to turn learning into performing very quickly, and then that performing piece, you are out there truly making a difference. DHS as one of the newer departments in the US government is a great place to make a difference. I would say from my, you know, time as a program manager has been very rewarding.

[00:27:37] Being able to do acquisition programs and apply and create prototypes and operate in the virtual environment at the cutting edge with some of the best engineers and scientists in the U.S. government has been very rewarding.

[00:27:49] Deepak: Yeah. And at the end of the day, I'm sure you can, you know, close your, uh, laptop and feel like you've made a difference, right?

[00:27:56] Matt Barger: That's right. Yeah. And I think if you're considering a career here, you will be able to do that as well. It is, definitely an environment where you will feel like you made a difference every day.

[00:28:06] Deepak: Well, what's next on the horizon for you, Matt? You and the Maritime Safety and Security Program in general.

[00:28:13] Matt Barger: I think, so several areas that we've been looking at and, uh, trending towards, we've recently produced a maritime program roadmap that we've posted on our public page on dhs.gov. There are seven major investment areas that we're looking to, you know, to start solving for some of these long-term enduring or even short-term problem sets that have been produced over the last few years.

[00:28:39] The first is, you know, being able to identify and work with unmanned assets. So, you know, the threat that unmanned or uncrewed, boats or vessels have to the domain of the safe mariner space. I think that's a big part that we're going to be looking at, you know, you mentioned, environmental climate economy, right?

[00:29:01] That's another big area of investment, being able to apply resources to safeguard the marine assets and also the marine resources, the wildlife, and the fish that we all rely on and enjoy, the blue crab, you know, it's a very big part of the imperative is to make sure we're safeguarding our resources in the maritime domain.

[00:29:25] And then I think lastly, just to highlight, would be the ability to, you know, share information across agencies and be able to communicate. We, as I mentioned earlier, the maritime domain is inherently one of partnership. It is one where we must work with those on the other side of the coast or those on the other side of the shoreline.

[00:29:46] So it is a very important piece to be able to find state and local industry partners and those internationally that want to work with us.

[00:29:54] Deepak: Yeah, no, that's a really good point. So, I have a really fun question to ask you. Matt, if you were the captain of a ship, what would be the name of your ship and why?

[00:30:05] Matt Barger: I think it would be something both, you know, serious and fun and that would be interesting to all, you know, I'd really like to honor some of the historical figures, both in the Coast Guard and the Navy and other mariners that have, you know, given a lot, you know, the commerce fleets out there.

[00:30:21] So I think it would be something in honor of one of those brave sailors or one of the brave men and women that serve our country today. I'd really like to, you know, take one of those ships as one of the operational vessels that I would use.

[00:30:35] Deepak: Yeah, the U. S., wait, did I add an extra S? The U. S. S. Barger Barge.

[00:30:41] Matt Barger: That's right.

[00:30:42] Deepak: Ok, and if you had a chance to sail around the world, what place would you visit first? I feel like you've already done all this though, right? I feel like you've been everywhere.

[00:30:50] Matt Barger: Yeah. I think the only place that I would add to my experiences is I would definitely like a Southern Hemisphere trip. They have, you know, the opposite seasons. So, it would be an opportunity to sail around a variety of different ports and in different parts of the world that old time mariners used to deal with, you know, as a navigational hazard, now you think of the Magellans and the famous sailors of times, they have, they had a variety of capes and different, you know, vessels that they had to navigate with. So, it would be really fun to do a kind of a South Africa, South American and Australia voyage.

[00:31:31] Deepak: Yeah. Well, no, that's awesome, Matt. This has been such a great conversation. I've really learned so much more about who you are as a person, but also, you know, what you do when it comes to maritime safety and security. Matt Barger, Director of the Maritime and Immigration Security Solutions Division.

[00:31:47] Thank you so much for being on. We've learned so much and we're so grateful you took time to talk to me.

[00:31:53] Matt Barger: Thanks. And I'll give you one more, uh, joke for the younger listeners out there too. You know, why were the student boats, the little boats scared of their teacher?

[00:32:03] Deepak: Why?

[00:32:05] Matt Barger: Because she's very stern.

[00:32:08] Deepak: Oh, I love these types of dad jokes. These are perfect.

[00:32:11] Matt Barger: That's right.

[00:32:12] Deepak: Like, I can never.

[00:32:14] Matt Barger: You can use that in your classroom. Next time your teacher asks for a joke.

[00:32:18] Deepak: Perfect. I'm not gonna forget that one. Thank you, Matt.

[00:32:22] Dave: Thank you for listening to Technologically Speaking. To learn more about what you've heard in this episode, check out the show notes on our website, and follow us on Apple and Google Podcasts, and on social media at DHS SciTech. DHS SCI TE CH. Bye!

Last Updated: 04/01/2024
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